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24p, 120p, genlock camera


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#1 David Ghast

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 07:44 PM

Ive done my research and have determined that these are my absolute requirements:

true 24p mode (not 48i)
(at least) true 120p mode (not 240i)
genlock for multicam synchronization

I guess im going to have to rent what camera this turns out to be because it will probably be in the tens of thousands, so in a way price is not an issue so much as i have a few options to choose from when i search every rental house for a pair of them. I suppose if there were some list containing every genlock camera i could figure it out for myself, but i havent had any luck finding such a thing so i still need advice in finding the right one.

Edited by David Ghast, 20 February 2009 - 07:44 PM.

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#2 DS Williams

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 08:08 PM

Phantom HD or Red is the only way to go then, as there is no ENG camera I know of that does 120fsp..
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#3 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 08:11 PM

And considering a Phantom costs UKĀ£2500 a day to rent...

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#4 Scott Fritzshall

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 08:46 PM

RED only does 120fps in 2k windowed mode I think, which is a pretty significant reduction in quality from 4k mode, so there's that.

Maybe an Arri 435 Advanced? Seriously, it's much less expensive than a Phantom.

You've got some really steep requirements dude, and cameras that do the things you want really don't exist in your price range. Unless someone way more creative than myself comes up with a better solution, your options as I see them are to either get a much larger budget, drop the high-speed requirement, or drop the stereoscopic idea. Sorry.
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#5 Michael Collier

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 09:21 PM

not a great solution, it won't meet all your requirements, but a JVC HD-250 has genlock, HDSDI out, and can shoot true 24p and 60p as its upper end. You can't control exact frame rate, its 24p, or 30p/60i (which can be turned into 720 60p easily, and it shoots it as true 60p) Might not get you where you want to be, but it will get you close for less if your pressed on budget.

as for genlock, the JVC 250, and the canon AH-1 and XL-HD1 both have options with genlock. Those are the only prosumer HD cameras I know of with genlock. Beyond that almost every full size ENG or digi cine camera will have a genlock function.
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#6 David Ghast

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Posted 21 February 2009 - 12:03 AM

What about the silicon imaging SI-2k? I couldnt find anything about it having gen-lock on their site, but P+S Techick Stereo Mounts are made for one. Anyone know anything about that camera?

It was also suggested that the Sumix 12A2c, which is more like a streaming webcam in its design, could be sync'd using software, instead of relying of genlock to sync the internal mechanics of a regular camera, and it would be well within my price range.

I wouldnt have any problem using 60p mode to simulate slo-motion if it were not for the fact that i dont think it could be done without ugly motion blur and frame blending, but i could be wrong.
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#7 David Ghast

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Posted 21 February 2009 - 01:45 AM

never mind, ceasar answered my question. Im not going to waste my money on overpriced overrated underperforming cameras. I leave that the pro's. Thanks for your help in showing me that conventional cameras just arent made for real filmmaking.
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#8 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 21 February 2009 - 06:09 AM

Well, it's certainly true that the price to performance ratio of the cheaper stuff is often vastly better - you find yourself paying more and more for less and less.

Decent interpolated slow-mo doesn't blend frames in the conventional manner - you should have a look at the website for the Twixtor plugin which has some truly diverting demos on it. It's surprisingly acceptable and really designed for your budget range where doing it "for real" is a bit of an expensive operation.

Yeah, or you could shoot film, but I doubt you could take a 435 or SR3 out for a day for 2.5k.

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#9 Walter Graff

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Posted 21 February 2009 - 09:56 AM

Why the need for genlock? I assume you mean that you want to record multiple cameras? Other than that, you really don't need genlock unless you are switching both cameras live which you could not do in these circumstances you are looking to accomplish.
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#10 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 21 February 2009 - 10:29 AM

never mind, ceasar answered my question. Im not going to waste my money on overpriced overrated underperforming cameras. I leave that the pro's. Thanks for your help in showing me that conventional cameras just arent made for real filmmaking.



Sounds like Ceaser is testing those cameras rather than offering you a fully developed solution. Which is fine just as long as you're willing to do your own testing and haven't a tight deadline.
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#11 David Ghast

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Posted 21 February 2009 - 02:02 PM

The man who never took a chance, never had a chance.
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#12 Stephen Williams

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Posted 21 February 2009 - 02:13 PM

The man who never took a chance, never had a chance.


Screw up a big pro shoot & your phone will go silent, thats why people test.
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#13 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 21 February 2009 - 05:04 PM

The man who never took a chance, never had a chance.


OK on your own shoot, but with limited funding and if there's a client involved expecting something to be delivered at the end, testing avoids surprises.

If you're doing it just for yourself that's fine, the whole process can be a test.

The SI Mini has been used for quite a bit of 3D work and it would make sense to contact them regarding any technical questions. You can use a laptop instead of the full SI 2K rig. Since buying one would be outside your budget range, I'd expect the rental company would let you run some tests at their premises.
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