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Help IDing Canon cinema lenses


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#1 Michael Panfeld

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 05:04 PM

Hi: I just acquired a 35mm f1.8 T2.0 and a 50mm F1.2 T1.4 Canon lens for a song ($400 with shipping). These are in BNCR mount with geared rings incorporated to the focusing mount. They do not say K-35. The serial numbers are 35mm: 12468 50mm: 17078. Both say Canon Camera Co. Japan and CANON LENS on the ring around the front element (which are both sunk well down from the front edge of the aperture mount.

I am trying to identify these. Any clue as to where I might find archival info from Canon. Or perhaps my description and pics will strike a bell.
Thanks

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#2 Nick G Smith

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Posted 25 February 2009 - 04:14 AM

Can you post some larger images as I can't get beyond the thumbnails.

As I understand it and I could be wrong ( Canon have never answered my queries about serial no.s unlike Zeiss ) the K35s start the serial no. with the year of manufacture i.e 78xxxx 81xxxx

The earlier K35 Sets had a 55mm the later 50mm. The lenses were derived from the Canon Aspherical still lens and had open apertures ranging from T1.3 to T1.5

Other companies may have rehoused the still lenses to BNCR.
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#3 Michael Panfeld

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Posted 25 February 2009 - 11:59 AM

Can you post some larger images as I can't get beyond the thumbnails.

As I understand it and I could be wrong ( Canon have never answered my queries about serial no.s unlike Zeiss ) the K35s start the serial no. with the year of manufacture i.e 78xxxx 81xxxx

The earlier K35 Sets had a 55mm the later 50mm. The lenses were derived from the Canon Aspherical still lens and had open apertures ranging from T1.3 to T1.5

Other companies may have rehoused the still lenses to BNCR.



Thanks, Nick. I'll post some better pics today. I am not so sure about the serial numbers. Attached is a pic of a K-35 18mm with a serial number that starts with a 1.

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#4 Nick G Smith

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Posted 25 February 2009 - 12:12 PM

Yes the 18mm K35s have different serial numbering than the other focal lengths starting with 1xxxx.
I have an 18mm T1.5 with a serial no. 10088 and I am pretty sure it was made in the early '80s while the rest of my set have serial no.s starting 81 which I take as their year of manufacture.
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#5 Michael Panfeld

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 12:20 AM

Nick: OK, well I got some better pix, but the file size is 7x larger than the upload limit for each pic. Can I email a few to you? Thanks
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#6 Nick G Smith

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 12:16 PM

Michael, email address sent to your inbox.
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#7 Michael Panfeld

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 01:30 PM

Michael, email address sent to your inbox.



Pix sent. Let me know if they got through. thanks
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#8 Dan Goulder

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 02:40 PM

The lenses you purchased appear to have a Mitchell mount (which is why they went for so little). They were more than likely made (or rehoused) prior to the introduction of the K35 series. Although they are comparable in speed, you'll need to check how well they intercut with K35s (if that's your intention), as K35s have a look all their own, differing from 'standard' Canon glass as well.
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#9 Michael Panfeld

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 04:03 PM

The lenses you purchased appear to have a Mitchell mount (which is why they went for so little). They were more than likely made (or rehoused) prior to the introduction of the K35 series. Although they are comparable in speed, you'll need to check how well they intercut with K35s (if that's your intention), as K35s have a look all their own, differing from 'standard' Canon glass as well.


Thanks. Yes, they are BNCR mount. Its too bad Canon, apparently, does not give archival support for its lenses as Zeiss does.
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#10 Leo Anthony Vale

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 06:24 PM

Hi: I just acquired a 35mm f1.8 T2.0 and a 50mm F1.2 T1.4 Canon lens for a song ($400 with shipping). These are in BNCR mount with geared rings incorporated to the focusing mount. They do not say K-35. The serial numbers are 35mm: 12468 50mm: 17078. Both say Canon Camera Co. Japan and CANON LENS on the ring around the front element (which are both sunk well down from the front edge of the aperture mount.


Those are not BNCR mounts, rather they are the older BNC rack over mounts.

The rear barrels of BNCR mounts are much shallower so they can clear the mirror shutter or the pellicle.
A BNCR lens will fit on a rack over BNC, but a rack over lens will not fit a BNCR mount camera without damaging the mirror.
Though they might fit a Red.
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#11 Michael Panfeld

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 08:02 PM

Whoa Nelly. I am a newbie. So how can I tell between a BNCR versus BNC? Is there a particular measurement that is determinative? If so, what is/are the measured differences and where specifically do you take those measurements? Oh and yes, I do intent to use these on a RED or the Scarlet/Epic this summer. Thanks for your insight and wisdom.
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#12 Michael Panfeld

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 08:35 PM

Oh my! The wiki page says that there is no difference between BNCR and BNC mount. Holy misinformation batman! I did a lot of google research and found one site that explained BNCR has a cone shaped rear. Wow, I have complete set of Super Baltars, and now some Canon's that are BNC mounts, BNCR.

OK, so before I start to fret, how easy is it to convert BNC to BNCR? How expensive is it? Does anybody know if the Visual Products BNCR mount for the RED work with BNC mounts as well?

Thanks
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#13 Michael Panfeld

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 08:49 PM

OK, well I compared the mounts on my Canon versus my Super Baltars. laying a ruler up against one of the flanges, it is 7/8 inch to the end (end of the metal, not to the rear element) on the Super Baltars. On the Canons, it is 1 3/16 inches. So there is a definite difference there. Does that change whether it is BNC versus BNCR or is the question simply a cone shape or not?
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#14 Nick G Smith

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 04:09 AM

As D Goulder and Leo said these are BNC mount lenses made for non reflex rack over Mitchell cameras. The actual flange is the same between both mounts but as Leo says you will destroy the mirror on a reflex camera with a BNC lens. Check the distance between the VP BNCR flange and the OLPF on the Red One to check clearance.

The difference between BNC and BNCR is that the R stands for Reflex and therefore the rear of the lens has to clear the mirror.

Yours look like Canon still lenses rehoused to BNC whereas the K35s were designed for film, I would roughly date them from the '60s but Leo would know better. Interesting to see a lens close down to F 28.

There is a Canon resource at http://www.canon.com...mera/index.html where they give a history of their Still lenses and you may be able to deduce which were used.
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#15 Michael Panfeld

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 12:28 PM

Thanks Nick and thanks to all for your advice and observations. I'll check in with VP in compatibility. At least these were cheap. Does anybody care to comment on my Super Baltars? I bought a Mitchell Camera along with the SB lenses and everything says BNCR. Do BNCR mounts all have a cone shaped back?
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#16 Leo Anthony Vale

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Posted 02 March 2009 - 05:27 PM

Thanks Nick and thanks to all for your advice and observations. I'll check in with VP in compatibility. At least these were cheap. Does anybody care to comment on my Super Baltars? I bought a Mitchell Camera along with the SB lenses and everything says BNCR. Do BNCR mounts all have a cone shaped back?


Here's a 30mm, 40mm Baltr and an 18.5mm Angie in the older BNC rock over mounts:

baltar_30mm__40mm__18.5mm___BNC_mt.___002.jpg

VS. a Canon K-35mm T2.8.

canon_k_35_18mm_T2.8.jpg

The BNCR lenses don't always have the conical rear, but you can see that the barrel behind the flange is considerably shorter than the rack over mount.

Super Baltars were designed for use on reflex cameras, specifically the mitchell S35R/ Mark II cameras. The Super Baltars have S35R mounts, the BNCR ones use a permanently mounted adapter.

Looking on the Canon Museum site, we find the following rangefinder lenses with leica screw mounts to be the only lenses whose specs match your Mitchell mount lenses.
Since Baltars were T2.5, these are faster supplementary lenses.

http://www.canon.com...35/s_35_18.html

http://www.canon.com...85/s_50_12.html
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#17 Michael Panfeld

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Posted 03 March 2009 - 11:42 AM

Thanks Leo. That certainly clears up tha my Canons are BNC. I just got an email from a sales manager at Visual Products. He confirmed that the VP BNCR RED mount WILL accept BNC mounted lenses! Yeeeha! Looks like I just scored.
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#18 SERGIO DOW

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 02:31 PM

Here's a 30mm, 40mm Baltr and an 18.5mm Angie in the older BNC rock over mounts:

baltar_30mm__40mm__18.5mm___BNC_mt.___002.jpg

VS. a Canon K-35mm T2.8.

canon_k_35_18mm_T2.8.jpg

The BNCR lenses don't always have the conical rear, but you can see that the barrel behind the flange is considerably shorter than the rack over mount.

Super Baltars were designed for use on reflex cameras, specifically the mitchell S35R/ Mark II cameras. The Super Baltars have S35R mounts, the BNCR ones use a permanently mounted adapter.

Looking on the Canon Museum site, we find the following rangefinder lenses with leica screw mounts to be the only lenses whose specs match your Mitchell mount lenses.
Since Baltars were T2.5, these are faster supplementary lenses.

http://www.canon.com...35/s_35_18.html

http://www.canon.com...85/s_50_12.html


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