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Telecine Questions


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#1 Steven Boldt

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 11:33 PM

I'm trying to put together a real-time home telecine system and I have a few questions.

1) I need a variable speed projector so does that refer to the 18fps-24fps settings or to a fine adjustment to those setttings?

2)I'm looking at some of the Machine Vision cameras so will these work O.K. in real time? (I think frame by frame transfer is overkill for people shooting in small guage-Super 8)

3)What do I need as far as optics-lenses? This is where the layman such as myself really needs help.

4) If the camera has a global shutter is having a CCD instead of a CMOS that important?

5)Are there any particular projector models I should look for?

Thanks for your time,
Steve
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#2 Freddy Van de Putte

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Posted 25 February 2009 - 05:29 AM

Hello Steven,

1) I need a variable speed projector so does that refer to the 18fps-24fps settings or to a fine adjustment to those setttings?


Make your projector adjustable from 0 to 24fps, this can be done with a DC motor and a PWM regulator.

2)I'm looking at some of the Machine Vision cameras so will these work O.K. in real time? (I think frame by frame transfer is overkill for people shooting in small guage-Super 8)


Frame by frame is not overkill, believe me. 2K is overkill. What you need is a machine vision camera with trigger input. This trigger must be connected with an optical switch on your projector. Every time a new frame arrives, the projector sends a trigger pulse to the camera. The camera then sends a frame to the computer and the software is recording it straight to AVI. This system works at any speed, you can even change the speed while recording to AVI. You can even stop the projector while in recording modus, the software will wait for the next frame. The end result is always a frame accurate AVI file. Progressive. Frame rate from the resulted AVI file does not matter. It is easy enough to change this afterwards.

This system can run in real time on a fast computer. But actualy, real time is a bit to fast. At slower speeds you have more time for adjustments between scenes for example.

3)What do I need as far as optics-lenses? This is where the layman such as myself really needs help.


All machine vision camera's are C-Mount. Makes it very easy to test different lenses. I am using a 50mm Linos with extention tubes and I have also a nice Computar marco zoom lens.

4) If the camera has a global shutter is having a CCD instead of a CMOS that important?


For now, CCD gives still better picture quality but this is changing fast.

5)Are there any particular projector models I should look for?


Easy acces to the gate is very important. Eumig has some models with removable gate.

Here's my system:
Visit My Website



Fred.

Edited by Freddy Van de Putte, 25 February 2009 - 05:30 AM.

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#3 Steven Boldt

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Posted 25 February 2009 - 12:12 PM

Hi Freddy,

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. The situation with small gauge filmmaking in the U.S. is much different than it is in Europe and other places. People who want to keep Super 8 alive as a means of filmmaking here in the U.S.have to settle for simpler means of digital transfer than frame by frame and we aren't going to get help from transfer houses or universities. The biggest problem is that anyone here with a 4 year college degree thinks they are qualified to teach about technology but very little of what they say about the use of anolog/digital stuff is true so you are forced to do everything yourself, except for processing. I was hoping there was a middle ground between a crude "off the wall" method and full blown frame by frame. I've already spent quite a bit of time looking at your set-up and results and it's very impessive, but it's a bit beyond my technical abilites to put such a system together.

There's a big difference between wanting to preservre old Super 8 family movies in a digital format and wanting to film Super 8 movies yourself and I would hope that people who do film transfers as a means of income would be wise enough not to respond to this thread.

I might take a chance by getting a machine vision camera but getting everything together, Super8 camera/film/filters/projector/capture camera etc... is slow going. I'll probably just wind up doing the old shoot it off the wall punk rock thing.LOL.

Anyway, thanks again.
Steve
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#4 Freddy Van de Putte

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Posted 25 February 2009 - 12:25 PM

I was hoping there was a middle ground between a crude "off the wall" method and full blown frame by frame.


OK, do you have a DV camcorder? It is possible to 'look' straight at the film frame with a 85mm slide projector lens, but I have never tested this. You need an adjustable 18-24fps projector anyhow and you will need to modify the light source.

but it's a bit beyond my technical abilites to put such a system together.


It is not rocket science :lol:

I'll probably just wind up doing the old shoot it off the wall punk rock thing.LOL.


Rock it Steve ;)

Fred.

Edited by Freddy Van de Putte, 25 February 2009 - 12:26 PM.

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#5 Steven Boldt

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Posted 25 February 2009 - 01:36 PM

Freddy, if we had people with your skills teaching film over here it would be great, but we don't. Schools should have courses devoted just to telecine methods to encourage experimentation. Student can learn to use cameras and software on their own.
Most of the teachers I had in film majored in art in college. In a way that's good because they're trained to see things most people can't but they are out of it when it comes to technology and they all use macs of course. The people that romantisize film in schools are the same one's that are killing it. Everyone is teaching outside they're major here and that's why I dropped film as a major. English is much more fun.

I'll see what I can do with old school methods. :ph34r:

Edited by Steven Boldt, 25 February 2009 - 01:37 PM.

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