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NLE Usage / The Norm


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#1 John Young

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 07:20 PM

First, please know that this is not a "which one is best" question. Also, I have read most of the posts and they usually turn into a "you need this computer" thread.

I use Premiere Pro CS3. I like Premiere, and I can use it quickly and efficiently. Currently, it is the best for me. I have tried to use AVID, and I really can't make heads or tails out of it, even with reading the user guide. I find it unfriendly, and weird. Now, this may be due to the fact that I never cut film. I have read film cutting guides and know what all the "standard" marks sorta look like, but even this didn't help with AVID.

So, that said, my question is: What is the most used professional NLE. What do the "big dogs" use, when not using actual film (not that everyone does that). If AVID is the de-facto, "walk into any edit office and that's what I'll see" software, then I will learn it. If its not, and it's just "really good" because it's just "really good", then I will most likely stick with Premiere.

My thought on this is that the film I shoot, when scanned and dumped to HDD, I will edit myself, cause usually its cheaper that way. My computer now handles HD video well, so I assume it will handle a 1 light.

Any thoughts?

Also, if someone can point me in the right direction to where I can learn about rendering output consistently, that would be awesome. I have issues when creating DVD's from HD footage, cropped to 2.40:1... it's always not the right size (letterbox style) or it's interlaced...
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#2 Ross Neugeboren

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Posted 28 February 2009 - 08:47 AM

So, that said, my question is: What is the most used professional NLE. What do the "big dogs" use, when not using actual film (not that everyone does that). If AVID is the de-facto, "walk into any edit office and that's what I'll see" software, then I will learn it. If its not, and it's just "really good" because it's just "really good", then I will most likely stick with Premiere.


I'm an FCP editor myself, but I can tell you that you likely won't find a whole lot of premier suites in professional post facilities. Avid has been the standard for quite some time, though FCP is certainly gaining ground. I've found a great way to learn NLEs is to look at freely available screencasts (or commercial DVD training, or commercial screencasts) for your particular product, and really just spend a whole lot of time messing around with footage once you've done so. As the famous photoshopper Bert Monroy once said, "the best way to learn [a piece of creative software] is to play."
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#3 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 28 February 2009 - 01:24 PM

As far as features go, any of the major NLEs (FCP, Avid, Premiere, Vegas, whatever) is more than capable of producing high quality work. They all have more or less the same features. It's not really about what's actually any good, it's about people's attitude to it. I've been paid very reasonable money for a Premiere suite, but that was the kind of client that didn't really know or care about the software - they just wanted an edit. I could probably have told them it was anything.

Premiere is more a computer-user's editor, and I certainly came to it as a computer person who wanted to do video as opposed to a video person who wanted to use computers. Technically that's probably the best way to do it, since it means that the computer doesn't have to bend over backwards to accomodate some obscure way of working that apes a working practice in the film and TV industry. Obviously, though, if you want to put a hoary old tape-to-tape guy on it, it needs to work to his strengths and that's what Avid does.

Personally I find Avid awkward and clumsy, and FCP is much more like Avid than Premiere so I'm not a huge fan. I'm sure if I was coming at it from a different background, I'd probably have other views.

P
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#4 John Young

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Posted 28 February 2009 - 07:00 PM

Premiere is more a computer-user's editor.


Now that absolutely makes sense. As a "computer guy", I understand Premiere, and learned it fairly quickly. I guess if I had been exposed to tape/flatbed editing earlier, then AVID would make sense. I guess I'll stick with Premiere.
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#5 Richard Boddington

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Posted 28 February 2009 - 10:23 PM

I have tried to use AVID, and I really can't make heads or tails out of it, even with reading the user guide. I find it unfriendly, and weird.


You are certainly not the only person that feels this way, I couldn't agree with your more. I've never liked Avid, yet those who use it daily swear by it.

I use FCP daily, but I routinely go back to Premiere for certain operations because I find it easier to use in some regards than FCP. That kind of talk is sacrilege to many FCP editors. :lol:

I still run the last version of Premiere for Mac before they stopped making it. I had to install a separate OS9 HD into my Mac in order to make this work right, and then export the final build from Premiere as a QT movie and import it into the FCP time line.

R,
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#6 Rick Martinez

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Posted 01 March 2009 - 12:49 AM

Premiere is no usually seen in professional post houses even if recent versions can handle works pretty well. I personally don't like it.
Avid and FCP are more common. The learning curve in Avid is difficult but the application is excellent after you master it (specially for long format editing). I started with this system in 1995 and used it to around 2003.
Final Cut is pretty easy to learn and functional so has been substituting many Avid suites everywhere.
I work mostly with Discreet Smoke but this one is high-end and expensive.

In your case I would go FCP.
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#7 David Auner aac

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Posted 01 March 2009 - 04:58 AM

Now that absolutely makes sense. As a "computer guy", I understand Premiere, and learned it fairly quickly. I guess if I had been exposed to tape/flatbed editing earlier, then AVID would make sense. I guess I'll stick with Premiere.


Hm, that maybe. I for one kinda taught myself Premiere. But when I started using Avid in college I quickly switched. And now, I can't go back. Everything in Premiere seems so awkward! I guess it's all about getting used to stuff. And what I love about Avid is that there always numerous ways to do something. You can always choose the way that suits your style or the project at hand. Also I found Avid more stable and better suited to editing with someone looking over you shoulder, somehow.

Cheers, Dave
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#8 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 01 March 2009 - 06:09 AM

I miss premier! I thought I had heard at one point in time they were releasing another one for OS X, but I'm not sure if that's just hearsay or not.
I like Avid, now that I'm getting "used" to it. It does have steep learning curve, but my version of Media Composer came with a handy dandy little CDrom tutorial. Very nice indeed.
I use Avid mostly to edit my own stuff in. For other people I'm often stuck with FCP, not that I mind as much. I would say, though, if you want to learn Avid, I find editing on it to be more time efficient.
A buddy of mine uses Vegas.... and I can't figure it out for the life of me!
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#9 Tenolian Bell

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Posted 01 March 2009 - 03:17 PM

Yep Premiere Pro for the Mac OS X was released with Creative Suite 3 in 2007. I think most people don't really care.

Posted Image

The way the situation has worked out is Adobe's fault. In the late 90's Premiere 6 was a simple video editor and had nothing near the sophistication of Avid. The lead developers of Premiere wanted to add advanced functions to rival Avid. Adobe was not interested. Apple asked Adobe to develop a simple video editing application for the Mac (iMovie), Adobe turned down the offer. Adobe stopped developing Premiere for the Mac because they thought Apple was a dead company.

The lead development team of Premiere left Adobe and went to Macromedia where they were free to develop Final Cut Pro. Apple bought Final Cut Pro from Macromedia to own its own video editing suite. Premiere was left behind in the NLE development race.



I miss premier! I thought I had heard at one point in time they were releasing another one for OS X, but I'm not sure if that's just hearsay or not.


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#10 David Ghast

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 02:26 AM

I think you all are missing the point. Premiere is about as good as it gets if your a small production or a lone-editor, however it doesnt work in large productions with dozens of editors because there is no centralized media management, and well, avid is made for reliability and support, which would explain the fact its interface is from the 90's and nothing else besides format support has been updated in it for quite some time.

FCP is marginally better than premiere, however you'd be missing the forest for the trees if you thought working on a proprietary locked down platform was in any way a wise choice. If they ported FCP to the PC, i'd use it over premiere any day, but never again will i go through the problems that the "once you go mac, you can never go back" apple philosophy caused when i found that there was no way to do what i wanted to do on an apple, and no way to port my files to a PC.

Hell, maybe you can get away with working on a mac, but your making a deal with the devil, and sooner or later, steve jobs cock's gonna end up in your mouth.
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#11 Del Collens

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Posted 12 April 2009 - 05:34 PM

Here is the simple answer to your question.
Avid is the industry standard, studios, union and non-union ran production companies all run Avid systems, both PC and Mac. The primary reason for this is it's workflows for both industry standard formats (HD/Film) and the way it handles media (it's codec's).
FCP is the consumer standard, independent, low-budget production companies all run FCP. It handles common rogue formats 'friendlier' than Avid.

As far as which is better, it really has to do with the editor's preference, as it is a tool, nothing more. What the editor wants to cut on is really up to them. People who bicker over which is better usually aren't editors.
However, if you do not have this clout, which very few of us do, to where a production company will get you what you need nine times out of ten you'll have to make due with what the post house/production company has. Which can be completely random.

So really whether or not you want to learn or purchase an editing program depends strongly on where you see yourself working. But it never hurts to learn at least the basics of each, being computer oriented is probably going to help you pick up different editing programs regardless, it will be more of an issue of what you can afford to do in the long run.
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#12 Keith Mottram

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 07:55 PM

I use premiere. But only as a way of moving timelines from FCP to AE. I don't get why people like it, I always thought it sucked back in the day and well I guess I'm now to old to give it another go. In fact last time I used it properly it was some weird combo with media 100 hardware. I cannot remember why.
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#13 Peter Moretti

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 04:18 AM

What you need is a good book on Avid. It is actually a very logical program and I think the easiest of all the NLE's to use once you get the hang of it.

I got comfortable with Avid by reading "Editing with Avid Xpress Pro and Avid Xpress DV." It's about four years out of date, but still applies very well to even the most recent version of Media Composer.

There are many tips and tutorials on the Avid website and loads of training DVD's for purchase. Also, Media Composer comes with a set of very good introductory tutorials.

If you want to learn Avid, help IS out there. :). & please feel free to aks me any ?'s.
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