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Some stills I shot on 5279...


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#1 Jonathan Bowerbank

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Posted 02 March 2009 - 04:50 PM

... processed with C-41 rather than ECN-2. Got some really interesting results.

http://www.flickr.co...57614573399785/

I basically got an $18 Tetenal C-41 kit from B&H and processed according to the supplied directions in a Paterson jobo tank.

Once the film had dried completely, I took a wet cloth and simply wiped off the rem-jet backing.

I wasn't working in the cleanest of environments, so there's a lot of fibers, hairs, dust, etc. on some of the photos. But I'm just experimenting and playing around, so it doesn't matter.

Click on "All Sizes" above some of the photos to see them in their highest resolution, and check out the sickle cell grain structure going on there. Could anyone tell me exactly what that might be? I've never seen it before, but I like it!

Edited by Jonathan Bowerbank, 02 March 2009 - 04:51 PM.

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#2 Kenny N Suleimanagich

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Posted 02 March 2009 - 05:14 PM

Looks amazing, Jonathan. The colors are very interesting, especially the green hue in nearly all of them, even the outdoor ones ( I thought it was because you were shooting in flouro's). The grain structure is bizarre!


A+

Edited by Kenny N Suleimanagich, 02 March 2009 - 05:15 PM.

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#3 Charles MacDonald

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Posted 02 March 2009 - 08:43 PM

The colors are very interesting, especially the green hue in nearly all of them, even the outdoor ones ( I thought it was because you were shooting in flouro's). The grain structure is bizarre!

Great timing, today I was checking my frezer and wondering WHY I bought several 100ft short ends of 35MM movie film. My thoght was to try something simalar to you experiment, and you shouts indicate that it might be worthwhile to persue.
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#4 Jonathan Bowerbank

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Posted 02 March 2009 - 09:03 PM

Definitely is worthwhile. It had taken me a few months to acquire the bulk loader, processing tank & chemicals between my everyday life, but it's sparked a new hobby of playing around with an in-home darkroom and just a new way to pursue some creative endeavors between corporate gigs ;)
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#5 Satsuki Murashige

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Posted 02 March 2009 - 09:41 PM

Love the way these look Jon. Is the low-con look partly from how you scanned the images? Wonderful painterly images, keep 'em coming. ;)
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#6 Jonathan Bowerbank

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Posted 02 March 2009 - 11:28 PM

Is the low-con look partly from how you scanned the images?


I think it's partly from a whole bunch of different elements. My lens is pretty low con, the images in general are pretty contrasty but I think the cross-processing may have left the blacks a bit more milky, and my scanner is doing pretty much a "one light" very slightly low-con scan of everything. And I really haven't changed too many of the photos from their original scan.
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#7 Antti Näyhä

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Posted 03 March 2009 - 12:11 AM

Click on "All Sizes" above some of the photos to see them in their highest resolution, and check out the sickle cell grain structure going on there. Could anyone tell me exactly what that might be? I've never seen it before, but I like it!

That's called reticulation, and it's traditionally caused by sudden temperature changes during processing. The individual grains basically clump together and form weird random patterns. I've no idea whether the C-41 vs. ECN-2 issue could have something to do with it, as well... Keep testing if you like it!

(Hint: I would love to see what reticulation looks like on a moving image. :) )

Edited by Antti Näyhä, 03 March 2009 - 12:13 AM.

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#8 Jonathan Bowerbank

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Posted 03 March 2009 - 12:35 AM

That's called reticulation, and it's traditionally caused by sudden temperature changes during processing.


The temperature's pretty constant throughout processing, using a temp maintained water bath. So it may be something else...hmmm, undoubtedly within the C-41 cross processing, just curious what it could be exactly.

I'm really missing John Pytlak right now.
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#9 Antti Näyhä

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Posted 03 March 2009 - 12:56 AM

I'm no expert with colour processes, but I'd say it must have something to do with temperatures.
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#10 Jonathan Bowerbank

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Posted 03 March 2009 - 02:10 AM

You probably do have a point, considering the temperature requirements probably are different for ECN-2 films vs. C-41 :)
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#11 grant mcphee

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Posted 03 March 2009 - 02:55 PM

I think C41 has a chemical anti-halation layer, as opposed to ecn-2's remjet. That might have something to do with it and the low-contrast?
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#12 Jonathan Bowerbank

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Posted 05 March 2009 - 06:13 PM

Uploaded the rest of the shots the other day. So feel free to look again if there are some new one you haven't seen :)

I just loaded some cartridges up with 5218, so that'll be next :)
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#13 Charles MacDonald

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Posted 05 March 2009 - 07:32 PM

I think C41 has a chemical anti-halation layer, as opposed to ecn-2's remjet.


Most C-41 film tends to have either dyes or a silver layer under the emuslion, which is removed in the bleach. The rem jet is Unique to Motion picture film.

That might have something to do with it and the low-contrast?

Motion picture film _IS_ designed to be of Lower contrast than still film. it generaly goes through at least 2 generations beofre it gets on the screen. the MP print materials is of higher contrast than the still papper for the same reason. More contraol fudge room is available/Used in motion Pictures. if scanning MP negatives feel free to up the gamma a bit.
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#14 K Borowski

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Posted 05 March 2009 - 09:35 PM

I'm no expert with colour processes, but I'd say it must have something to do with temperatures.


That won't cause reticulation.

Reticulation is caused by temperature CHANGES, not temperatures other than optimal 40ºC/104ºF. I.e., if you have color developer at 40 Cee and the wash water is 19 C (66F) you will get reticulation or pinholes. God that brings back bad memories. Only step that is temperature-critical and time-critical is the developer. Bleach, fixer, wash steps and stabilizer don't have to be exactly the right temperature, just not something crazy like a 20C/26F differential.

Jonathan, something else you could try would be to substitute in ECN-2 developer and use that instead. Rest of the steps are, essentially, interchangeable between C-41 & ECN-2.
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#15 Jonathan Bowerbank

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Posted 06 March 2009 - 03:38 AM

Thanks Karl

Got your PM, but couldn't reply because your inbox is full. This is such an experimental type hobby for me, don't think I want to pay the expensive prices for someone to do ECN-2 processing. I've embraced the grain, ha ha!

But hey, if you have a source for buying developer in 1 liter quantities, do let me know :)
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#16 Serge Teulon

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Posted 06 March 2009 - 06:33 AM

Hey Jonathan,

Nice pics!!

It's great to you have done this experiment and also to post it on here.

nice one! ;)
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#17 Ryan Thomas

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Posted 07 March 2009 - 02:34 AM

Some cool shots. I saved 50 feet of some 64D a while back for this same purpose....I just gotta roll it and get some chemicals to process it up.

I have heard sort of mixed reviews of processing your own color film though. Is it as toxic as people seem to say?
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#18 Jonathan Bowerbank

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Posted 07 March 2009 - 02:45 AM

I have heard sort of mixed reviews of processing your own color film though. Is it as toxic as people seem to say?


Not noticeably...not according to my senses at least. I guess the bleach/fix (blix) mixture is a tad foul...just don't drink it. ;)

But to be safe, I at least wore a dust mask while working with the blix.

I haven't researched a safe way of disposing it though, I don't want to just dump it in the sink. But like I said, you can recycle and reuse the same batch of chemicals for multiple rolls. I probably have room to process 10 more rolls before they're completely spent.
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#19 K Borowski

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Posted 07 March 2009 - 08:30 AM

But to be safe, I at least wore a dust mask while working with the blix.

I haven't researched a safe way of disposing it though, I don't want to just dump it in the sink. But like I said, you can recycle and reuse the same batch of chemicals for multiple rolls. I probably have room to process 10 more rolls before they're completely spent.


Dust mask isn't necessary. Stuff doesn't smell particularly nice, but that is only due to the concentration of the chemical equivalent of vinegar, acetic acid.

If you have a cut on your hand and get blix on it, though, it'll burn like hell.

All photographic processing chemistry is actually quite benign. At least here in the United States, you'd be perfectly fine pouring the stuff down the drain. Only thing you don't want to dump down the drain is the blix. Find a lab that has a silver reclamation system, and they'll just take it off of your hands for you. Only "toxic" part that they don't want getting into the sewers is the silver from spent blix / fix.

IDK why you are using a blix though. That is a definite no-no for color film. The process really does require a separate bleach and fixer stage.
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#20 Freya Black

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Posted 07 March 2009 - 08:38 AM

(Hint: I would love to see what reticulation looks like on a moving image. :) )


There are lots of experimental films (bleuggggh!) that feature reticulation. Phil Solomon has done a few, I remember one called the snowman in paticular. Maybe there might be some playing at a festival near you if you keep an eye out. I'm sure you could quite easily get in there, see the films and then run away very, very fast! :)

[Edit: Ah! Australia, maybe it won't be so easy, I'm not sure how much such films play over there but you never know!]

love

Freya

Edited by Freya Black, 07 March 2009 - 08:42 AM.

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