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#1 Paul Bruening

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 12:14 PM

I'm watching For a Few Dollars More on AMC (God, how I love Leone!) and wondering more about how they got such completely fine images out of Techniscope resolutions.

My questions include:

Does shallower DoFs, principally BG bokeh, increase an assumption of sharpness in the subjects? I know this is used by everyone at all resolutions, but does it have a more effective psychological impact in a format like Tscope?

Did their use of sharper light sources like arcs and tungsten fresnel cans add sharpness and definition to the images even if only at a psychological level? If so, would any user of Tscope format gain by these methods to create the substantial illusion that the 2-perf format was as well resolved as a higher res film format like 4-perf anamorphic?
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#2 Delorme Jean-Marie

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 12:41 PM

sorry it's not D. M. replying

i recently went to a panavision presentation of the 2 perf cameras and we saw side by side film test of S16, 2perf, 3perf and 4perf scope.
when you see those tests it reminds tou if needed that scope isn't only 2:40 aspect ration frame it's also an image a BIG STEP higher for resolution, color, sharpness and snap!
that's a whole.
producers should go to thoses projections each time the word anamorphic or 2/35 comes out in a prep.
there is a BIG difference between 2:35 in S35 spherical and 2:40scope, a big difference.
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#3 John Brawley

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 04:58 PM

I'm watching For a Few Dollars More on AMC (God, how I love Leone!) and wondering more about how they got such completely fine images out of Techniscope resolutions.

My questions include:

Does shallower DoFs, principally BG bokeh, increase an assumption of sharpness in the subjects? I know this is used by everyone at all resolutions, but does it have a more effective psychological impact in a format like Tscope?

Did their use of sharper light sources like arcs and tungsten fresnel cans add sharpness and definition to the images even if only at a psychological level? If so, would any user of Tscope format gain by these methods to create the substantial illusion that the 2-perf format was as well resolved as a higher res film format like 4-perf anamorphic?


Hi Paul. NOt David answering here either.

I think it's a couple of things. Firstly, 2 perf really isn't much different to 1.85 in terms of screen real estate, It's just a different masking so it's at least comparable to that.

And you are watching a print ? I also think that we've forgotten how good an optical finish is. For the last few years we've been fed a steady diet of 2K DI's and been told how much better they are, but it's often surprising to go and look at a photochemically finished print and realsie there's a lot more on the screen than makes it through the DI. It's been a few years but i saw a test print struck via DI and optically and there was a big difference on screen when you a/b'd them (two projectors running at the same time and masked on screen.)

Of course there's more colour correction control but we're trading a lot of resolution for that luxury.

jb
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#4 Stuart Brereton

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 05:40 PM

it reminds tou if needed that scope isn't only 2:40 aspect ration frame it's also an image a BIG STEP higher for resolution, color, sharpness and snap!


I think Paul's question was how did they make Techniscope (which is 2 perf) look so good, not 4 perf anamorphic Cinemascope.
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#5 Bruce Taylor

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 07:09 PM

Hey Paul,

I'm not D. Mullen either!

It's been a few months since I've seen my last Leone spectacular on my tv, but I do have a couple of thoughts, some regurgitated hearsay and I may generally be talking out of my *ss, but...

I think you're right! The spectral highlights from the hard lighting sources and shiny surfaces (man, they sweat a lot) all add up to a perception of very sharp images. The extreme close-ups also make things appear more sharp and less grainy while the backround bokeh from the CUs reinforces the perception.

Another element here that I believe improved the overall look of Leone's Techniscope adventures was the dye transfer Technicolor process that some say suppressed the perception of grain. I do wonder at what point the telecine/scan was done (so many years later) to make the digital copies? Does that happen before or after the Technicolor dye transfer process? These things I don't know.

Things are so different now with the great films we have to shoot with. Remember what a S16 blow-up used to look like 20 or 30 years ago? A film like Slumdog mixes up 35, S16 and digital-- all of it looks great up on the screen.

I am shooting a music vid out in the desert later this spring and I am going to rent some of Leon's 2 perf work to get some "shooting 2.40:1 in the desert" ideas. I haven't decided on Techniscope or 4 perf anamorphic yet.


Bruce Taylor
www.indi35.com
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#6 Tim Partridge

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 07:20 PM

I am (very clearly) not David Mullen either, but:

Did their use of sharper light sources like arcs and tungsten fresnel cans add sharpness and definition to the images even if only at a psychological level?


I definitely believe the sun soaked weather, blue skies and colourful locations play a big hand in that apparently tightened grain look of those Leone Westerns. It's a very colourful, high key and saturated image that I believe diverts you away from the inherent flaws of Techniscope. There are no underexposed aeras in sight - the entire image is balanced with no fall off into underexposure because of that Southern European weather- even the shadows are filled in by arcs and reflectors on the brightest exteriors!

If you don't believe me watch any Leone Techniscope film back to back with the low key The Ipcress File, where the drab London locations, dim overcast weather and muted, gritty art direction especially just make the golfball graininess of Tscope all the more apparent. It's really obvious in many of the exterior scenes where the actor's faces are exposed (and lit artificially) while the location backgrounds behind them are all availablly lit, and comparitively underexposed. It's the same even on many of the studio and location interior shots, which are really low key, dark and high contrast, with lots of contrast and fall off (unlike the Leone Tscope films). Note also that the two Ipcress sequels were shot anamorphic.
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#7 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 09:37 PM

I am (very clearly) not David Mullen either


Not you guys have got me confused as to whether I'm David Mullen either...

I think it's a combination of extremely crisp lighting or hard sunlight, higher contrast, generally shooting stopped down on the lens, and the slow film stock of the day. 2-perf is not much smaller than Super-35 cropped to 2.40 after all.

Dye transfer printing direct to matrix from the o-neg helped in the day to keep grain down and increase contrast and thus sharpness, but that's not what you're seeing to day in new transfers off of the negative or new prints.

Also, if you see these movies on the big screen, they aren't as sharp as they are on home video, you see some of the limitations of the 2-perf neg and older film emulsions.

But Leone was a sharpness freak and I think the harsh lighting has a lot to do with the effect. You can see the occasional shot made in bad weather wide-open on the lens and they aren't that sharp or crisp.
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#8 K Borowski

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 09:44 PM

Excellent job Mullen!

;)
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#9 Chris Keth

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 02:33 AM

Excellent job Mullens!

;)


Fixed that for you.;)
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