Jump to content


Photo

Projectors for 16mm mag stripe dubing


  • Please log in to reply
15 replies to this topic

#1 Dennis Goble

Dennis Goble
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 48 posts
  • Student

Posted 12 March 2009 - 08:53 AM

Can we start a thread listing models and makes of projectors that can play 16mm mag stripe film?
Also it would be nice to note if they can dub.
Thanks
Dennis
  • 0

#2 Dennis Goble

Dennis Goble
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 48 posts
  • Student

Posted 12 March 2009 - 04:13 PM

I guess I'll have to reply to my self. :unsure:

From what I found an EIKI NST model will play back mag stripe 16mm film.
Not sure about dubing.

Ok I'm finding Bell and Howell 202 and 302 had magnetic sound. (vacuum tube models)

Edited by Dennis Goble, 12 March 2009 - 04:18 PM.

  • 0

#3 K Borowski

K Borowski
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 3905 posts
  • Camera Operator
  • I.A.T.S.E. Local # 600 Eastern Region

Posted 12 March 2009 - 04:46 PM

I guess I'll have to reply to my self. :unsure:

From what I found an EIKI NST model will play back mag stripe 16mm film.
Not sure about dubing.

Ok I'm finding Bell and Howell 202 and 302 had magnetic sound. (vacuum tube models)


Ultimately, Dennis, there are very few mag- stripe projectors. The film has been obsoleted since the '80s, the projectors are rare, even at festivals, and the workflow is decaying to the point where professional facilites are almost non-existent.

IDK if this exists, but if you want to project 16, I'd honstely look into some kind of interlock between analog tape, high-resolution digital audio, or some other sort of dual-system solution. IMAX used to supposedly have a 35mm mag. stock interlock as a backup for their DTS system. So the technology is out there.

But, ultimately, R16mm is a dead format. You need to do S16 (can this even be protected without a blowup?) or U 16 to exist in the 21st century.

I have a R16 camera, and love it to death, but I'd never use it for a film-project, unless I got it updated to U16 (won't convert to S16).
  • 0

#4 Bruce Taylor

Bruce Taylor
  • Sustaining Members
  • 482 posts
  • Other
  • Los Angeles

Posted 12 March 2009 - 05:31 PM

Can we start a thread listing models and makes of projectors that can play 16mm mag stripe film?


Sorry I'm not going to come up with a list, but I do seem to recall that all the projectors that I came across that would play a mag stripe would also record to it. In the olden days, mag striped prints or camera original were frequently post-dubbed for business and home presentation, so the projectors would have a record function.

In most ads I have seen for projectors that have mag stripe capability, that fact is made known. Striped rawstock is no longer available, of course. I wonder if there are any labs left that apply a stripe to prints?

Good luck in your search,

Bruce Taylor
www.indi35.com
  • 0

#5 Dennis Goble

Dennis Goble
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 48 posts
  • Student

Posted 13 March 2009 - 08:56 AM

Thanks Karl I would like to know what camera you have that uses magstripe.
Since I don't know of many camera's that record optical I wonder why mag didn't make a hit?
Yes, as much as I don't like it a dual system is probably the only way to go.

Here is a link to Bell & Howell 16mm projectors

http://www.paulivest...proj_primer.htm
  • 0

#6 Jean-Louis Seguin

Jean-Louis Seguin
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 719 posts
  • Other
  • Montreal, Canada

Posted 13 March 2009 - 12:33 PM

Hi Dennis,

The Bauer P6 Studio and P7 Studio double-band projectors will record onto and play back both mag striped film as well as 16mm fullcoat. There might even have been a P8. They were also sold under the name Sonorex. I still have my P6 Studio but haven't used it in years.

Cheers,
Jean-Louis
  • 0

#7 Charles MacDonald

Charles MacDonald
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1157 posts
  • Other
  • Stittsville Ontario Canada

Posted 13 March 2009 - 10:49 PM

Thanks Karl I would like to know what camera you have that uses magstripe.
Since I don't know of many camera's that record optical I wonder why mag didn't make a hit?


It made a _GREAT_ hit. while the older Auricon cameras did single system sound using an optical sound system, the later ones used the magnetic stripe under the "Filmagnetic" name as the mag stripe was a lot less fussy to get good results.

This was the way that TV news was recorded until it was generaly repleced by "Betacam" Kodak did phase out the mag stripe stock after that.

It is probaly hard to find an older TV news guy who did not file reports with an Aricon, or CP16 in that era.

Edited by Charles MacDonald, 13 March 2009 - 10:51 PM.

  • 0

#8 Dennis Goble

Dennis Goble
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 48 posts
  • Student

Posted 18 March 2009 - 11:47 AM

Man these are hard to find.

What did these people back then play their mag stripe newsreels on anyway?

:lol:
  • 0

#9 John Sprung

John Sprung
  • Sustaining Members
  • 4635 posts
  • Other

Posted 18 March 2009 - 02:23 PM

It was TV news ("Film at eleven...") -- so they would have had dedicated film chains at the TV stations.




-- J.S.
  • 0

#10 Brian Drysdale

Brian Drysdale
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 5069 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 18 March 2009 - 05:32 PM

It was TV news ("Film at eleven...") -- so they would have had dedicated film chains at the TV stations.


And cut on a editing table that could play the mag stripe.

BTW They used a magnet to erase any unwanted sound overlap on a cut due to the 28 frame sound lead over the picture.
  • 0

#11 Herb Montes

Herb Montes
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 225 posts
  • Other
  • Gulf Coast of Texas

Posted 19 March 2009 - 06:59 AM

My CP-16 still has the maghead and amplifier in it but without magfilm stock it's redundant. I know Kodak made some Pageant models with mag stripe recording capabilities. Haven't seen one in a long time. Mostly seen the optical track models. This site has manuals for many projectors and their forum can help you with some information:

http://www.film-tech.com/
  • 0

#12 Dennis Goble

Dennis Goble
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 48 posts
  • Student

Posted 22 March 2009 - 12:29 PM

There is some mag stripe on ebay right now.

http://cgi.ebay.com/...hro...:1|294:50
  • 0

#13 K Borowski

K Borowski
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 3905 posts
  • Camera Operator
  • I.A.T.S.E. Local # 600 Eastern Region

Posted 22 March 2009 - 02:23 PM

Thanks Karl I would like to know what camera you have that uses magstripe.
Since I don't know of many camera's that record optical I wonder why mag didn't make a hit?
Yes, as much as I don't like it a dual system is probably the only way to go.

Here is a link to Bell & Howell 16mm projectors

http://www.paulivest...proj_primer.htm


Sorry Dennis, you misread me. I have an Auricon, with a variable-area optical recording option.

I was thinking of getting it modified to U16 (if that is possible), and perhaps in some sort of fashion so that I could switch the U16 framing to R16 if I still wanted to do single-system for fun stuff (it's really not good enough for professional dramatic use).
  • 0

#14 Dennis Goble

Dennis Goble
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 48 posts
  • Student

Posted 25 March 2009 - 10:21 AM

On second thought I wouldn't touch any of that film from that link on ebay.
From what I have read no lab will process this.
If they did the emulsion would fall off and clog their processor and ruin everything. :o
Don't touch it. :(

Edited by Dennis Goble, 25 March 2009 - 10:22 AM.

  • 0

#15 Freya Black

Freya Black
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 4161 posts
  • Other
  • Went over the edge... Central Europe

Posted 25 March 2009 - 01:38 PM

On second thought I wouldn't touch any of that film from that link on ebay.
From what I have read no lab will process this.
If they did the emulsion would fall off and clog their processor and ruin everything. :o
Don't touch it. :(


I think you might be thinking of an older process but this is just VNF. There are still places in the states processing VNF film and some people home process in E6 too!

love

Freya
  • 0

#16 K Borowski

K Borowski
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 3905 posts
  • Camera Operator
  • I.A.T.S.E. Local # 600 Eastern Region

Posted 25 March 2009 - 07:38 PM

VNF was a pre-hardened stock. So it will run through E-6, physically, fine. The contrast will be higher and there will be a shift on the green-magenta axis. I forget which way. But all the labs running E-6 have to do is mix up the old VNF-1 first developer (Or was it the color developer? Forget now), and it'll run exactly the same way.

ME-4/E-4 and some of their predecessors were the ones you had to worry about. VNF-1 was designed for high speed, therefore high temperature modern color processing mostly to meet deadlines and increase labs' productivity and profitability. So VNF, assuming it isn't significantly age-fogged, will hold up just fine. . .
  • 0


The Slider

Paralinx LLC

Opal

CineLab

CineTape

Aerial Filmworks

FJS International, LLC

Ritter Battery

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Broadcast Solutions Inc

rebotnix Technologies

Technodolly

Abel Cine

Wooden Camera

Visual Products

Metropolis Post

Tai Audio

Willys Widgets

Glidecam

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Rig Wheels Passport

Technodolly

Opal

Glidecam

Metropolis Post

Aerial Filmworks

The Slider

Rig Wheels Passport

Willys Widgets

Paralinx LLC

Broadcast Solutions Inc

CineTape

Wooden Camera

Visual Products

Tai Audio

Ritter Battery

CineLab

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

rebotnix Technologies

FJS International, LLC

Abel Cine

Gamma Ray Digital Inc