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Shooting in daylight


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#1 Jeremy Hunt

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Posted 18 March 2009 - 09:35 AM

Hi, im a first time cinematographer, and i have some questions about shooting in daylight.

Im trying to get a look thats quite similar to kes, with its dull looking "natrual" colours. I did some tests on my nikon d40 slr, and found that underexposure made the colours dull, but thats an slr.

Any suggestions?
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#2 Ralph Keyser

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Posted 18 March 2009 - 05:14 PM

Jeremy,

Are you planning to shoot film or digital?

I've never seen Kes, but according to the Internet, cinematographer Chris Menges pre-flashed the film stock. You might find the following link useful:
http://www.tcm.com/t...rticleId=183450

Cheers,
Ralph
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#3 Kieran Scannell

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Posted 18 March 2009 - 06:09 PM

Hi, im a first time cinematographer, and i have some questions about shooting in daylight.

Im trying to get a look thats quite similar to kes, with its dull looking "natrual" colours. I did some tests on my nikon d40 slr, and found that underexposure made the colours dull, but thats an slr.

Any suggestions?


Kes was a wonderful film I'm a huge Ken Loach admirer and locations are very important to what he achieves on screen

that dull natural look has more to do with production design,wardrobe and location. I would concentrate on that first, shoot it clean

then do the rest in post.

Kieran.
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#4 Jeremy Hunt

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 07:21 AM

Jeremy,

Are you planning to shoot film or digital?

I've never seen Kes, but according to the Internet, cinematographer Chris Menges pre-flashed the film stock. You might find the following link useful:
http://www.tcm.com/t...rticleId=183450

Cheers,
Ralph


Hey, thank you for the reply.

Yes thats very helpful, there isnt very much on what he did to get that look. It is more production design than anything, but the grass is really kind of a dull colour, which is intresting. Were going to be filming on 16mm, but im doing a previv tomorrow on a panasonic p-2.

would using a low contrast filter get a simillar look?
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#5 Shane Bartlett

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 09:46 AM

would using a low contrast filter get a simillar look?



With the Low Contrast filters, you'll also get halation in the highlight areas. The Ultra Contrast filters, on the other hand, will evenly lower contrast over the entire frame without halation. I've used them before, but only for video (ultracon 4), and they do help. Of course, as others have already indicated, choosing your color palette (location, design, wardrobe) is extremely important.


Here are some frames from my last short film, shot 2 years ago with an HVX200 and the Ultra Con 4, with deliberate underexposure. I was going for a specific look, but I think it's close to what you are seeking. Should give you an idea at the very least.

Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image

In that last shot, I added slight diffusion to enhance the effect created by the sheers hanging over the bed, and in post I restored the blacks a bit.

I've found that 7205 with slight underexposure (1/3 to 1/2 stop) is wonderfully low in contrast and saturation. Sadly, I do not have any frames to show you--still waiting for my copies of the footage from the director. I imagine though that with the combination of an Ultra Con you could get pretty close to the look you want.

Most people avoid grain/noise, but I think a little grain helps (and maybe that's simply my opinion) in achieving a muted look. Just look at Savides' work, especially in Birth.
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#6 Ralph Keyser

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 11:23 AM

Yes thats very helpful, there isnt very much on what he did to get that look. It is more production design than anything, but the grass is really kind of a dull colour, which is intresting. Were going to be filming on 16mm, but im doing a previv tomorrow on a panasonic p-2.


I'm guessing that pre-flashing the film stock is one of the keys on that film. You can flash with different colors of light instead of just white light, so you can effect the response curves of the different colors. Production design is crucial to the look of a film of course, but I doubt that they touched the grass. These days, you can probably do most of things that film-flashing does in post.
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#7 Jeremy Hunt

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 12:37 PM

With the Low Contrast filters, you'll also get halation in the highlight areas. The Ultra Contrast filters, on the other hand, will evenly lower contrast over the entire frame without halation. I've used them before, but only for video (ultracon 4), and they do help. Of course, as others have already indicated, choosing your color palette (location, design, wardrobe) is extremely important.


Here are some frames from my last short film, shot 2 years ago with an HVX200 and the Ultra Con 4, with deliberate underexposure. I was going for a specific look, but I think it's close to what you are seeking. Should give you an idea at the very least.

Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image

In that last shot, I added slight diffusion to enhance the effect created by the sheers hanging over the bed, and in post I restored the blacks a bit.

I've found that 7205 with slight underexposure (1/3 to 1/2 stop) is wonderfully low in contrast and saturation. Sadly, I do not have any frames to show you--still waiting for my copies of the footage from the director. I imagine though that with the combination of an Ultra Con you could get pretty close to the look you want.

Most people avoid grain/noise, but I think a little grain helps (and maybe that's simply my opinion) in achieving a muted look. Just look at Savides' work, especially in Birth.



Wow, those look amazing.

It turns out as of a few hours ago that we are infact going to be shooting on 7205.

Thanks very much for the references and the info, i can post the results if you like?

-Jeremy
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#8 Danny Haritan

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 08:32 PM

With the Low Contrast filters, you'll also get halation in the highlight areas. The Ultra Contrast filters, on the other hand, will evenly lower contrast over the entire frame without halation. I've used them before, but only for video (ultracon 4), and they do help. Of course, as others have already indicated, choosing your color palette (location, design, wardrobe) is extremely important.


Here are some frames from my last short film, shot 2 years ago with an HVX200 and the Ultra Con 4, with deliberate underexposure. I was going for a specific look, but I think it's close to what you are seeking. Should give you an idea at the very least.


Posted Image

In that last shot, I added slight diffusion to enhance the effect created by the sheers hanging over the bed, and in post I restored the blacks a bit.

I've found that 7205 with slight underexposure (1/3 to 1/2 stop) is wonderfully low in contrast and saturation. Sadly, I do not have any frames to show you--still waiting for my copies of the footage from the director. I imagine though that with the combination of an Ultra Con you could get pretty close to the look you want.

Most people avoid grain/noise, but I think a little grain helps (and maybe that's simply my opinion) in achieving a muted look. Just look at Savides' work, especially in Birth.


Such a beautiful looking shot.
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#9 Shane Bartlett

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 09:53 PM

i can post the results if you like?

-Jeremy



Please do!
Have fun. I think you'll like 7205.
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#10 Ram Shani

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 02:31 AM

Shane

the grabs look amazing!

can you tall more about the camera set-up you used?

gamma/matrix/knee/saturation

did you shoot full hd

did you used 35mm adapter?

thanks
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#11 Shane Bartlett

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 05:37 AM

Ram,

I didn't use any 35 adapters on this one, just an HVX200 right out of the box.

It's been 2 years, so I don't recall all of the details, sadly--I always want a dedicated note-taker, but it never seems to work out. :blink:

All I can say now is that I'm pretty sure I went with the Cinelike gamma setting--whichever is flattest. I cranked the detail level down quite a bit, set Master Ped at -3, and pulled the color a little (except that last frame grab, for which I dialed in a little more saturation). No bump in gain. UltraCon 4, and underexposure.

Sorry I can't be any more specific.
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#12 Ram Shani

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 06:28 AM

thanks

do you have a link to see it online?
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#13 Shane Bartlett

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 05:16 PM

thanks

do you have a link to see it online?



Unfortunately, not yet. I'm just now getting around to building my website. I hope to have it all complete by the end of the summer.
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Wooden Camera

The Slider

Willys Widgets

CineLab

Metropolis Post

Rig Wheels Passport

Ritter Battery

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Paralinx LLC

Aerial Filmworks

Abel Cine

rebotnix Technologies

CineTape

Technodolly

Opal

Visual Products

Glidecam

Tai Audio