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#1 Ernie Zahn

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 11:08 PM

thanks to the input by Ralph Keyser, I was pointed in the right direction for a good "audio assist" device. meaning something i'd use as an audio aid for post looping. anyway, i was also curious about a good and cheap device for recording live sound. thus far we've used a mac lap top with proprietary software and this is fine for controlled sets like soundstages and domestic indoor shoots. but there will be many shoots for various projects that will mean 12+ in forests, beaches, open water and elsewhere. For this we'll need something portable and preferably something discrete in case we ever need to implement guerrilla tactics! for indy filmmakers i've read tons and tons of form pages discuss DAT and minidisc. i have a minidisc recorder but it is not himd and thus, not lossless. i need a lossless portable sound recording device preferably a digital that simplifies capture. thus far i've seen that himd recorders start at $200 or so and go waay up from there. is this my best bet for lossless, digital recording in a portable device? any insight would be much appreciated.
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#2 Ernie Zahn

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 11:22 PM

thanks to the input by Ralph Keyser, I was pointed in the right direction for a good "audio assist" device. meaning something i'd use as an audio aid for post looping. anyway, i was also curious about a good and cheap device for recording live sound. thus far we've used a mac lap top with proprietary software and this is fine for controlled sets like soundstages and domestic indoor shoots. but there will be many shoots for various projects that will mean 12+ in forests, beaches, open water and elsewhere. For this we'll need something portable and preferably something discrete in case we ever need to implement guerrilla tactics! for indy filmmakers i've read tons and tons of form pages discuss DAT and minidisc. i have a minidisc recorder but it is not himd and thus, not lossless. i need a lossless portable sound recording device preferably a digital that simplifies capture. thus far i've seen that himd recorders start at $200 or so and go waay up from there. is this my best bet for lossless, digital recording in a portable device? any insight would be much appreciated.



Let me add to this question...

there are many forms of lossy audio. how bad is the lossyness of ATRACK1 format? standard minidisc is ATRACK1 and we'll be editing with logic and soundtrack pro to create a 5.1 surround sound soundtrack. it'll be exhibited in movie theatres. will the human ear distinguish the difference? what will be missing by not using a lossless source?
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#3 Ross Neugeboren

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Posted 22 March 2009 - 10:27 AM

The ATRAC format is 292kbit/sec, giving ``CD like'' audio fidelity. Whereas, MPEG Layer 1 gives transparent CD fidelity audio at 384kbit/sec. (Although, the TRAC is usually rated better, hands-down, then the MPEG.) In terms of recorders, those that can record in the Broadcast Wave Format (BWF) will give you optimal losseless quality depending on the bitrate and frequency response. In terms of low-cost recorders, the most popular is the Fostex FR-2. It records two tracks at 24bit/196 kHz to Type II compact flash cards. Unless you are planning to record with a 5.1 surround source, like a holophone, then this should provide quality lossless audio. The FR2 is availiable used, new, and refurbished from anywhere between $400-$1300 dollars.

Edited by Ross Neugeboren, 22 March 2009 - 10:28 AM.

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#4 Ernie Zahn

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Posted 22 March 2009 - 05:11 PM

The ATRAC format is 292kbit/sec, giving ``CD like'' audio fidelity. Whereas, MPEG Layer 1 gives transparent CD fidelity audio at 384kbit/sec. (Although, the TRAC is usually rated better, hands-down, then the MPEG.) In terms of recorders, those that can record in the Broadcast Wave Format (BWF) will give you optimal losseless quality depending on the bitrate and frequency response. In terms of low-cost recorders, the most popular is the Fostex FR-2. It records two tracks at 24bit/196 kHz to Type II compact flash cards. Unless you are planning to record with a 5.1 surround source, like a holophone, then this should provide quality lossless audio. The FR2 is availiable used, new, and refurbished from anywhere between $400-$1300 dollars.

thanks for the advice!
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#5 Joe Giambrone

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Posted 12 May 2009 - 11:06 PM

Is the Fostex FR2 built for professional use? Can it handle a low budget feature film shoot? How's the sound quality on dialog?
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#6 Tom Houston

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Posted 13 May 2009 - 12:45 PM

Is the Fostex FR2 built for professional use? Can it handle a low budget feature film shoot? How's the sound quality on dialog?


I use a Fostex FR-2 modified by Oade brothers with an AKG-C422 stereo mike and it is wonderful and quiet. Works well for both live performances and dialog. The recorder will also record to SSD. Link below.

http://www.oade.com/...-2_upgrade.html

Tom
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#7 Tom Houston

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Posted 13 May 2009 - 12:56 PM

Almost forgot:

I put some sound captures up on DVXinfo last year. The thread below has some sample audio recorded with my FR-2 using different mics.

http://www.dvinfo.ne...ved-i-love.html


Tom
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