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Lenses and Red.


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#1 ryan knight

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 03:19 PM

howdy,

i'm prepping a red shot short in the next few weeks and have some questions about lenses.

i recently shot a feature with the red and zeiss distagons.

for this film, the director wants the camera close to the actors, to enhance the feelings of closeness and exaggerate the feeling of isolation and foreboding when cutting to wider angles. his favourite lens is a 28mm and something tells me we won't throw on anything longer than a 50mm, expect for inserts.

also, the director wants the picture as sharp as possible, to really emphasize facial details and overall textures.

so i'm wondering if someone can recommend some primes that may be good for this aesthetic... fast, sharp, closer to subjects and wider lenses (no distortion of course) and good contrast retention when flared.

thanks all!

Edited by ryan knight, 26 March 2009 - 03:22 PM.

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#2 Matthew Rogers

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 07:59 PM

howdy,

i'm prepping a red shot short in the next few weeks and have some questions about lenses.

i recently shot a feature with the red and zeiss distagons.

for this film, the director wants the camera close to the actors, to enhance the feelings of closeness and exaggerate the feeling of isolation and foreboding when cutting to wider angles. his favourite lens is a 28mm and something tells me we won't throw on anything longer than a 50mm, expect for inserts.

also, the director wants the picture as sharp as possible, to really emphasize facial details and overall textures.

so i'm wondering if someone can recommend some primes that may be good for this aesthetic... fast, sharp, closer to subjects and wider lenses (no distortion of course) and good contrast retention when flared.

thanks all!


Sounds like you need to look at either Arri Standard Speed, Arri Ultra Primes, or Cooke S4's. All three are basically T2, sharp, and I believe all three are fairly close focus (2') Ultra Primes and S4's are going to be better with contrast with flaring, but of course their rental price is going be at least double the Standard Speeds.

Matthew
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#3 Chris Keth

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 11:02 PM

Matthew nailed it. If you're on a tight budget, standards are nice. If you can spend a little more money, I think ultra primes are worth the price jump. You can get ultra primes down to 10mm which looks just short of "see the operator's nose" wide.
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#4 Brad Grimmett

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Posted 28 March 2009 - 09:35 PM

The Master Primes are the sharpest and fastest and all the widest lenses focus at 14". My second choice would be super speeds if you're on a budget. S4's would be my last choice since they're considered to be a bit softer.
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#5 Chris Keth

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 02:55 AM

The Master Primes are the sharpest and fastest and all the widest lenses focus at 14". My second choice would be super speeds if you're on a budget. S4's would be my last choice since they're considered to be a bit softer.


Brad's right. The master prime series is the sharpest and is very, very good wide open. They're also a step more expensive than ultraprimes and I've yet to work on anything where the gain in cost was deemed important enough not to just get ultraprimes.
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#6 ryan knight

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 08:39 AM

Brad's right. The master prime series is the sharpest and is very, very good wide open. They're also a step more expensive than ultraprimes and I've yet to work on anything where the gain in cost was deemed important enough not to just get ultraprimes.


great.

i was hoping the majority of y'all would say master primes.

thanks!
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#7 ryan knight

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 09:03 AM

great.

i was hoping the majority of y'all would say master primes.

thanks!


.... but we can't afford master primes.... ultra primes it is.
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#8 Chris Keth

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Posted 31 March 2009 - 03:30 PM

I've very rarely been on a show that can afford master primes. I love them to death but, unless I know the show's budget is quite generous, I go straight to suggesting ultra primes if I'm asked about it. You'll be happy with them.
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#9 Jake Kerber

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Posted 31 March 2009 - 05:37 PM

It has been said that the Ultra Primes 'mesh' better (image-wise) with the RED ONE compared to the Master Primes. I have yet to test this out myself,
but possibly you're not losing out if you can't afford MPs. Sorry I don't have specific examples. Maybe someone who's shot with both on the RED can elaborate.
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#10 John Sprung

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Posted 31 March 2009 - 05:50 PM

It has been said that the Ultra Primes 'mesh' better (image-wise) with the RED ONE compared to the Master Primes.


You'd have to know the MTF's of the lenses, which aren't on the Zeiss web site that I could find. It could be that they have more resolution than the 4K sensor needs.




-- J.S.
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#11 ryan knight

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 09:13 AM

it turns out that our powerful little short that could... simply can't... afford ultras either.

what could be the next recommendation?

thanks all.
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#12 Jake Kerber

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 01:28 PM

Arri Standard or Super Speeds. If you go with Super Speeds, try not to shoot WFO--T2.8 would be preferable for what
you're after.
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#13 Jamie Metzger

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 03:04 PM

Arri Standard or Super Speeds. If you go with Super Speeds, try not to shoot WFO--T2.8 would be preferable for what
you're after.


+1

You could always take a hit on your rate and get ultra primes. I dont think you understand how awesome those lenses are!

Also, minimum focus is certainly important, But are you really going to have your characters on the edge of minimum focus at a t2/2.8? That's a whole bag of problems.
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#14 ryan knight

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 03:10 PM

i do know how awesome these lenses are haha, but i don't think the person with the red pen truly does.
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#15 ryan knight

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 09:07 PM

when it comes down to it, the producer is going to make me choose between the 1.3s and the superspeeds. as i mentioned above, i used the 1.3s, but am looking for something sharper. the majority of the film (all but one scene) is to be shot day EXT. so i don't necessarily need that extra stoppage that the 1.3s offer over the superspeeds, but will the superspeeds render a sharper image than the 1.3s?

thanks all.
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#16 Chris Keth

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 01:14 AM

when it comes down to it, the producer is going to make me choose between the 1.3s and the superspeeds. as i mentioned above, i used the 1.3s, but am looking for something sharper. the majority of the film (all but one scene) is to be shot day EXT. so i don't necessarily need that extra stoppage that the 1.3s offer over the superspeeds, but will the superspeeds render a sharper image than the 1.3s?

thanks all.


I'm not sure what you mean. Superspeeds are T1.3 lenses.
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#17 ryan knight

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 09:40 AM

I'm not sure what you mean. Superspeeds are T1.3 lenses.


i'm supersorry, i meant standardspeeds 2.1s.
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#18 Jake Kerber

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 01:08 PM

Ryan, I'm sure your rental house has both Standards and Superspeeds. You should go there and throw both sets on a
lens projector and see which one you like more. You could even do a small test in the prep area or outside in the parking lot to better
inform your decision.

Even though you may have already shot with both, testing them side by side, looking for differences or similarities will be
educational and allow the most confident decision.

Since it sounds like the director has a lot of specific imagery in mind, you could even invite him along to the test.
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#19 ryan knight

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 01:38 PM

Ryan, I'm sure your rental house has both Standards and Superspeeds. You should go there and throw both sets on a
lens projector and see which one you like more. You could even do a small test in the prep area or outside in the parking lot to better
inform your decision.

Even though you may have already shot with both, testing them side by side, looking for differences or similarities will be
educational and allow the most confident decision.

Since it sounds like the director has a lot of specific imagery in mind, you could even invite him along to the test.


t'is the plan.

best everyone, thanks.
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#20 Jamie Metzger

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 09:41 PM

Birger made a PV mount for the red....

Who is tempted as much as I am?
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