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16mm electric cameras


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#1 anthony le grand

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 03:57 PM

Hi everyone,

I was recently searching for low end 16mm electric cameras and allow longer shots than 30 sec. I heard that the B&H 240 can shoot almost 1 min long shots (but with spring wind) but that's pretty much all I know.

Otherwise, there's the scoopic.... but does anyone know if there are other electric cameras like that???

Thanks
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#2 Ian Cooper

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 02:47 AM

Hi everyone,

I was recently searching for low end 16mm electric cameras and allow longer shots than 30 sec. I heard that the B&H 240 can shoot almost 1 min long shots (but with spring wind) but that's pretty much all I know.

Otherwise, there's the scoopic.... but does anyone know if there are other electric cameras like that???

Thanks


Although originally launched with a spring drive, the later (and more commonly encountered) Beaulieu R16 has electric drive. On some models there's even the option of an external 200ft magazine.
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#3 Ian Cooper

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 02:52 AM

...oh, and don't forget the Bolex's aren't all clockwork! Not only are motors available to fit on spring-drive models, certain examples of the camera are designed and built with internal electric motors.

Also in the realm of small MOS 16mm electric cameras would be the Arri 16S, not to mention various Russian examples as well.

What would be the most suitable camera for yourself would depend a lot on your budget and intended useage requirements.
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#4 anthony le grand

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 05:15 AM

oh, didn't know for the bolex. I tought that motors were always added.. good to know!

I have a K3 but plan to buy an Eclair ACL when i'll have a bit more money. But I'll have to wait...
I'm just looking for simple electric cameras. I just feel limited by the 25 sec of the K3 sometimes so I was wondering what could be the possibilities... And the scoopic 16 is not easy to find.

Thanks guys!
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#5 Ian Cooper

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 06:45 AM

oh, didn't know for the bolex. I tought that motors were always added.. good to know!


Have a look at the Bolex EL and the Bolex EBM. There are differences, but both use the Bolex Bayonet lens mount (C-Mount adapter available) and with the use of an external cystal sync. source they are able to offer locked speeds as well.



I have a K3 but plan to buy an Eclair ACL when i'll have a bit more money. But I'll have to wait...
I'm just looking for simple electric cameras. I just feel limited by the 25 sec of the K3 sometimes so I was wondering what could be the possibilities... And the scoopic 16 is not easy to find.


I've moved from a K3 to an R16. The three-lens turret on the R16 can easily get distorted by using large zoom lenses in place of the primes it was designed for. I found that when I got mine, so got it replaced with the stronger single lens plate designed for the purpose.

It is reported that the R16 can be a bit fragile and prone to breaking down. I haven't had mine long enough to pass comment, but Leo Dickinson used both the Canon Scoopic and Beaulieu R16 to film "Eiger Solo" in 1984. and to film an expedition to be the first to canoe down the Dudh Kosi from the base of Everest in 1976. To my mind both would have been fairly extreme situations, but like anything, the camera probably appreciates and responds well to regular servicing, and it probably doesn't withstand the type of abuse other cameras might.

The R16 can't be modified for super-16, and it seems unlikely it could be modified for ultra-16 either. The camera has a C-Mount, but as it uses a mirror shutter you don't have the "rx" lens issues found with the reflex bolex. The joy about C-Mount is that the FFD is so short you can get adapters for most of the more common 'modern' camera mounts should you wish to use PL, Arri Bayo/Std etc lenses. The design at the front of the camera would presumably also make it fairly straightforward to have the mount permanently changed to something else as well.

The 200ft magazine is nice in theory, but film isn't generally supplied on 200ft daylight spools these days - which is a bit of a problem! Having said that, empty 200ft spools are still available, so you could respool a 400ft core of film onto x2 200ft spools to use. All versions of the R16 will take 100ft daylight loads internally.

Certainly in the UK the R16 appears on EBay more frequently than the Scoopic.
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#6 Herb Montes

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 07:01 AM

I have a Bolex M5 with an EM motor attached. With a prime lens it makes for a lightweight electric camera since the battery is held in a pouch from your belt. It also can drive the 400 foot magazine but this adds weight to the camera. Add a large reflex zoom and you will be needing a shoulder pod or tripod. I once handheld a clockwork M5 with a large Pan Cinor zoom and after several hours my arms were falling off. That's why I eventually got a CP-16. The CP-16 would be a good candidate for an electric camera with 400 foot film capacity and it can be converted to Super 16. There are plenty of them around.
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#7 anthony le grand

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 09:06 AM

I was thinking also of the CP-16, they can be found quite cheap on ebay now. But no always easy to find one in a very good shape.

Do you know guys if all the Bolex models accept a motor?? I especially think of the H16. I knew the EBM one but didn't know it was originally electric.
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#8 Will Montgomery

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 12:07 PM

If you like the portability of the K3 the Scoopic may be your best low-cost alternative. The MS or MN version. Easiest loading camera I've ever encountered and extremely sharp lens in the middle f-stop range. Shot with one this weekend no problem.

The Bolex EBM or SBM also have built-in motors I believe but are only slightly more difficult to handhold but significantly more expensive the last time I looked.

Now if you actually have money to spend and are looking for something small and easy to use, check out the A-minima.
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#9 David Auner aac

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Posted 09 April 2009 - 08:21 AM

The Bolex EBM or SBM also have built-in motors I believe but are only slightly more difficult to handhold but significantly more expensive the last time I looked.


The SBM is a spring (SBM = Spring Bayonet Magazine) driven camera like most Bolexes are. The EBM and the EL are the only ones with internal electric motor.

Cheers, Dave
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#10 Bruce Taylor

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Posted 09 April 2009 - 03:12 PM

I was thinking also of the CP-16, they can be found quite cheap on ebay now. But no always easy to find one in a very good shape.


The CP16 is a workhorse professional camera. If you're interested, I have one I would love to get rid of, I just don't use it. It was rebuilt by Whitehouse just before I got it and I only ran about 800' through it. Original case, 2 400' mags, batteries, mint Canon 12-120 macro zoom. $1000.

Bruce Taylor
bruce@indi35.com
www.indi35.com

CP16R_side.jpg
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#11 John Sprung

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Posted 09 April 2009 - 04:22 PM

Do you know guys if all the Bolex models accept a motor?? I


I think so. I have an early non-reflex H-16, and an add-on motor for it that drives it using the hand crank shaft. You have to let the spring wind all the way down first, and you can only run forward. Turning the hand crank shaft backwards winds the spring up.




-- J.S.
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#12 Michael Collier

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Posted 09 April 2009 - 04:30 PM

I have a CP-16 and in the low end 16mm cameras I think its the best. It has 400' mags, its simple internally, crystal synced and can run up to 32 fps. Also it can be modified to accept PL lenses and super16 gate. If you don't want to modify the lens mount, I have found the angie 12-120 lens to be very clean and sharp, although it has terrible close focus charecteristics. If you want to focus any closer than 5 ft, you must be at a 25mm lens or greater, which can sometimes be a restriction without diopters. There is an angie 6mm prime lens available in the CP mount that is just gorgeous.
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#13 Will Montgomery

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Posted 09 April 2009 - 08:30 PM

Isn't a CP-16 a little hard to hand hold though? It thought it was more of a tri-pod only camera...
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#14 anthony le grand

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Posted 10 April 2009 - 07:44 AM

Isn't a CP-16 a little hard to hand hold though? It thought it was more of a tri-pod only camera...


Yeah, the CP-16 is definitely hard to hand hold, especially compared to the Bolex or Scoopic. But I think this camera is cheap for all its qualities..
Will, I wish I had enough money to buy a A-minima! I wouldn't even have posted this topic. Such a fantastic camera..

As I said, a Scoopic would be perfect for me if I can find one. Otherwise, an electric R16 or Bolex with motor would be good..

Thanks guys for all your answers
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#15 Will Montgomery

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Posted 10 April 2009 - 07:54 PM

Looks like a couple Scoopic 16m's are on eBay right now. One looks really clean.

First One

2nd One

They seem to go for about $500-650 or so. I've had three all bought off eBay and in great shape. Just stay away from the older original model from what I hear.

I've had the M, MN and MS. All great, very little difference between them except in the power cord of the charger station. Of course the MS can take 400' loads with the adapter but it kind of defeats the purpose of such a light and easily held camera. I have the adapter and a 400' magazine but have yet to actually use it.
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#16 John Sprung

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Posted 11 April 2009 - 02:41 AM

Isn't a CP-16 a little hard to hand hold though? It thought it was more of a tri-pod only camera...


It's a tad on the heavy side, but it's what the TV news guys used in those days. It helped to be big and strong.



-- J.S.
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#17 Charles MacDonald

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Posted 12 April 2009 - 09:16 PM

It's a tad on the heavy side, but it's what the TV news guys used in those days. It helped to be big and strong.

They were also sometimes equiped with sholder braces and harnesses that looked like they may have been invented by the users themselves. the use of battery belts was common, and sometimes also a sound unit on a second belt. Switching to betacam must have seemed like a majic wish granted by a gennie for some of those folks.
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#18 Charles MacDonald

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Posted 12 April 2009 - 09:17 PM

It's a tad on the heavy side, but it's what the TV news guys used in those days. It helped to be big and strong.

They were also sometimes equiped with sholder braces and harnesses that looked like they may have been invented by the users themselves. the use of battery belts was common, and sometimes also a sound unit on a second belt. Switching to betacam must have seemed like a majic wish granted by a gennie for some of those folks.
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