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Need shaft of light without HMI???


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#1 Kyle Stueve

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Posted 12 April 2009 - 06:55 PM

Hello all,

I need to create a shaft of "moon light" through a window of a condo or apartment at night to provide a nice key or fill on the actors faces. I am going to use a fogger to help with the visible shaft, but I don’t know what type of light to use since HMI's are slightly out of the budget.

I am thinking like a 1.2 or 2k source, but not real sure. Can we use multiple lights, something that will look as realistic to moon light I guess would be favorable. Camera being used is HVX with redrock encore, p2.

all info and suggestions would much appreciated, thanks a lot.
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#2 Chris Pritzlaff

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Posted 12 April 2009 - 07:06 PM

if you really want a visable shaft of light I would suggest a leko of some sort - you can usually get them in 750w and you can control the spread of the beam to suit the look you are going for. Gel according to your preference.

However if you are trying to key the actor with it I would suggest a softer source as lekos tend to be very hard and might not look good as a key light, esp on an HVX.
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#3 Satsuki Murashige

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Posted 12 April 2009 - 07:06 PM

Usually the "shaft of light" effect is a background lighting effect, rather than a key (though of course you could do that). The only way it would work as a fill is if you bounced the light back up to the actor.

You can use any focused light source for this, so a ellipsoidal spot or a Dedolight would work. Also look into 1000w par 64 fixtures with VNSP (Very Narrow Spot) globes, which put out a huge amount of focused tungsten light. They get very hot though, watch out. They won't be as powerful as a larger HMI, but you can cluster multiple units together to get a multi-shaft effect. If you're budget opens up, then there's a Dedo 400w HMI that you could look into. And you can also get 400/800w Joker HMIs inside a 'soidal housing to take advantage of the optics.
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#4 Kyle Stueve

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Posted 12 April 2009 - 07:35 PM

Usually the "shaft of light" effect is a background lighting effect, rather than a key (though of course you could do that). The only way it would work as a fill is if you bounced the light back up to the actor.

You can use any focused light source for this, so a ellipsoidal spot or a Dedolight would work. Also look into 1000w par 64 fixtures with VNSP (Very Narrow Spot) globes, which put out a huge amount of focused tungsten light. They get very hot though, watch out. They won't be as powerful as a larger HMI, but you can cluster multiple units together to get a multi-shaft effect. If you're budget opens up, then there's a Dedo 400w HMI that you could look into. And you can also get 400/800w Joker HMIs inside a 'soidal housing to take advantage of the optics.


Yeah normally I would not use that light as key, but this scene is a party scene where the house lights are off and I need some primary source for illumination, they will be sitting on a couch or something, after partying, that type of feel. Needs to have a dramatic edge with nice harsh shadows. I just need something on the side of there faces like "moon light" and we can fill in with flex of foam core.
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#5 Eric Moers

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 01:18 AM

I agree with Satsuki on using PAR 64's with the VNSP bulbs although they can be tricky to shape as they are more "dirty". Ellipsoidal Source Fours are good as well. Keep in mind that having a dark background will also greatly enhance the light shaft, sometimes just as well as haze. Actually I recently finished a 16mm shoot where we were going for a "Blade Runner" look with the strong beams of light, but of course we didn't have anywhere near the budget for Xenons or anything past 2K lights. We had a Source 4 we were using with a couple of custom made mirrors to bounce the light around this large hall. Someone mishandled the light and killed the bulb, which was the only one we had. We couldn't get a replacement until the next day, so luckily I brought with me a couple of 16mm projectors and used those instead. The projector gave off a much stronger beam and was flicker-free, although it would probably be unusable for your sound crew.
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#6 carl spring

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 04:08 AM

I'm with the rest of them on this one, PARs are cheap and friendly as are Ellipsoidal. Using the foam boards are a good idea kyle, but would suggest a second source(non diegetic) to bounce it to give that soft moonlight on the actors.

Kudos on the use of the projector in the time of need Eric. can't say i would have thought of that (or had them to hand), A good boy scout is always prepared ;)


Good luck with the setup kyle, post your results.

Kindest Regards

Carl
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#7 Karel Bata

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 08:55 AM

I've used sealed beam CSI lamps several times for exactly this purpose! They're like PARS but with a discharge bulb inside. A bit clunky since they're made for lighting building exteriors, but they're completely weatherproof, with an unbelievably long throw (way better than a fresnel), and were a lot cheaper to hire than HMIs. Noisy and heavy ballasts though. May not be available where you are. Color temperature sits between daylight and tungsten, so I'd think they're ideal for what you want. Beware - very pronounced flicker. Strange they never caught on - I loved them! :D

.
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#8 Karel Bata

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 06:31 PM

Posted Image

http://www.phoenixli...amp;Product=116 :D


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#9 David Bradley

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 09:13 AM

what stock / format are you using? If your medium is fast enough then you could get away with using anything as small as a 650W fresnel on spot. Remember the smaller the source and the further you place it from the subject the harder the light.
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#10 Stuart Brereton

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 09:36 AM

Yeah normally I would not use that light as key, but this scene is a party scene where the house lights are off and I need some primary source for illumination, they will be sitting on a couch or something, after partying, that type of feel. Needs to have a dramatic edge with nice harsh shadows. I just need something on the side of there faces like "moon light" and we can fill in with flex of foam core.


The problem you going to have is that to achieve the shaft of light you really need to backlight the haze or smoke. You can get away with a 3/4 backlight, but the more the source gets around to the side of camera, the less the shaft appears.
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#11 JD Hartman

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 07:46 PM

You could always use a beam projector like the Pana or the Reich Vogel. Only downside is they run on 24vac so they a heavy stepdown transformer.
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#12 Kyle Stueve

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 08:42 PM

The problem you going to have is that to achieve the shaft of light you really need to backlight the haze or smoke. You can get away with a 3/4 backlight, but the more the source gets around to the side of camera, the less the shaft appears.



yeah, I am going to do a master shot of them on the couch, or whar ever, and revel the light coming through the window (with haze). Then we will move in for our close ups on the actors faces and I need the source to be strong enough, but I already know the other side of their face will need some light and/or fill. Granted we can move the ligh closer for close ups, but I like the idea of little light.


Shooting on HVX 200 w/encore redrock.

Thanks all of you guys.
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