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#1 Rhys Cooper

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Posted 12 April 2009 - 09:37 PM

I bought the Canon XL1 because I thought it would be really cinematic compared to the cheap consumer model I had previously been using (and it is, but it's not quite film standard).

I want to get a better Depth of Field, and I was thinking about getting an adapter. What would be best to buy, and how much would it be?

I want my footage to be as cinematic as possible. I find it strange that you can watch interesting footage shot poorly and you get bored quickly, but you can watch boring footage shot well and you'll watch it for hours (which is why I came to this website).

I am new to cinematography but really want to get into it. I plan on becoming a film director/filmmaker someday, and I understand how important cinematography is (I don't want to be the director who tells people what to do unaware of their job -- I want to be able to DO their job without them [thus getting them to work as hard and as efficiently as possible]).
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#2 Rhys Cooper

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Posted 12 April 2009 - 09:54 PM

Would filters help? ND filters or closeup filters? The XL1 has an inbuilt ND filter and I'm buying closeup filters, polarizer and UV filters (being shipped now). I switched on the ND filter for the first time now and it looks like it had some effect.
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#3 Steve McBride

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Posted 12 April 2009 - 10:29 PM

Filters will help in "shaping" the image before it's recorded, but it won't really help with your depth of field or color space (which is what makes film's visuals look the way they do). The XL1 doesn't have settings for different gamma setups like the XL2 or DVX100 does, nor does it have the ability to shoot at 24 frames per second (24p) like the other mentioned cameras.

An ND filter is what you use when you need to reduce the amount of light actually being recorded by the camera without adjusting the exposure. Using an ND filter lets you keep the aperture open more and keep your depth of field shallow instead of widening it as you stop up.

Since the XL1 uses 1/3" CCD's, your depth of field isn't going to be close to that of film's. If you want to make the DOF shallower you need to get a lens adapter like the Letus or RedRock or any of the other 35mm lens adapters. With these you are able to use your higher quality lenses and get the shallower depth of field.
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#4 Rhys Cooper

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Posted 12 April 2009 - 11:02 PM

If you want to make the DOF shallower you need to get a lens adapter like the Letus or RedRock or any of the other 35mm lens adapters. With these you are able to use your higher quality lenses and get the shallower depth of field.

So in order to get a better DOF I'd have to get both the adapter and the 35mm lens?
How much would that cost?
What is the difference between the brands Letux and Redrock (what's better?), and why would I need an adapter that spins the glass?
Couldn't I just buy a better lens for the XL1?
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#5 Rob Vogt

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 07:28 PM

Since the XL1 uses 1/3" CCD's, your depth of field isn't going to be close to that of film's. If you want to make the DOF shallower you need to get a lens adapter like the Letus or RedRock or any of the other 35mm lens adapters. With these you are able to use your higher quality lenses and get the shallower depth of field.


Actually for the XL1 I wouldn't reccomend the Letus or Redrock adapters. They use a spinning glass and new lens mount which acts as an adapter but causes a loss of light and degrades the image. I would use the XL to PL adapter by Optex that Mantle used on 28 days later. http://www.videogear...mp;productId=89 its also about 3 times cheaper than those other adapters.

I would also highly reccomend renting the lenses insted of buying PL mounts to save costs...
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#6 Rhys Cooper

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 11:00 PM

Actually for the XL1 I wouldn't reccomend the Letus or Redrock adapters. I would use the XL to PL adapter by Optex that Mantle used on 28 days later. http://www.videogear...mp;productId=89 its also about 3 times cheaper than those other adapters.

I would also highly reccomend renting the lenses insted of buying PL mounts to save costs...


Awesome! They are so much cheaper! Is it just an adapter for the 35mm lenses? It's still gonna cost a bit then I guess.
I probably wont buy them, I mean they would be awesome, but I'm not really going to make the money back and I cant just keep taking my parents' money for this kind of stuff.
Thanks so much, though.
If I can scrounge up the money somehow, I'd buy it (maybe Christmas... I dont know).
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#7 Anatole Sloan

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 03:24 AM

Actually for the XL1 I wouldn't reccomend the Letus or Redrock adapters. They use a spinning glass and new lens mount which acts as an adapter but causes a loss of light and degrades the image. I would use the XL to PL adapter by Optex that Mantle used on 28 days later. http://www.videogear...mp;productId=89 its also about 3 times cheaper than those other adapters.

I would also highly reccomend renting the lenses insted of buying PL mounts to save costs...


I don't think this is the case. Redrock and Letus have groundglass in them - which results in the light loss - that allows you to shoot at virtually the same focal length for s35. This allows you to achieve the DOF of s35 film, where as the other provides a crop of the lens (i.e. same dof)
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#8 Rhys Cooper

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 08:44 AM

Is this the same adapter? Where else can I get it?
I don't exactly have AU$400 to buy it (including the lens), so I was wondering if there was more affordable product closer to me.
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#9 Rhys Cooper

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Posted 19 April 2009 - 03:32 AM

Bump.
That adapter... will it attach to the XL1 for use to adapt a 35mm lens? Will it let me change the aperture, or will I do that on the lens?
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#10 Rob Vogt

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Posted 19 April 2009 - 09:50 AM

To answer your first question, no that is not the same adapter. That adapter will allow you to use Nikon or Pentax lenses in your XL1, not cinematic pl lenses. The difference is the focus marks on the Nikon lenses were meant for still photography and the focus marks are inaccurate for motion photography. You shouldn't use auto focus lenses or auto aperture lenses on a motion picture camera.
Im not saying its not possible or it wont look good if you use Nikon lenses, people have and sometimes it looks really professional, but there are reasons that the pl mount adapter is more expensive than the Nikon one.


To answer your second question you will have to change your aperture on the lens.
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#11 Rhys Cooper

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 06:11 AM

That adapter will allow you to use Nikon or Pentax lenses in your XL1, not cinematic pl lenses. The difference is the focus marks on the Nikon lenses were meant for still photography and the focus marks are inaccurate for motion photography.

How do focus marks really effect the final image?
I saw on a video they said you can only use prime lenses with that, but could I get a lens that would have a zoom for the XL1?
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#12 Rhys Cooper

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 08:19 AM

Alright, alright. I'm an extreme noob, no denying that. I just want confirmation.
If I buy this XL to PL lens, I can just put the 35mm on the front? Or does it NEED to be PL, or Arri PL?
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#13 Anatole Sloan

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Posted 21 April 2009 - 09:21 AM

Alright, alright. I'm an extreme noob, no denying that. I just want confirmation.
If I buy this XL to PL lens, I can just put the 35mm on the front? Or does it NEED to be PL, or Arri PL?


Hi,

I posted earlier on - not sure whether you read it. This adapter will not give you the DOF that you are looking for. At the same aperture and focal length, it will give the same DOF as your current lens, and any XL lens. With the Redrock and Letus, a 50mm lens will perform like a 50mm lens in s35 (or, depending on the crop factor, maybe around a 70mm). For the XL1, a 50mm lens with that adapter that you have above will be equivalent to a 250mm lens, as you have a crop factor of around 5x. My maths here may be a little bit off, but essentially, only the Letus and Redrock provide what you're looking for.

To achieve a 50mm field of view with the nikon or arri PL adapter, you would need a 10mm lens. a. This does not exist and, b. you will still have huge dof.

Anatole

Edited by Anatole Sloan, 21 April 2009 - 09:24 AM.

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#14 Rhys Cooper

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Posted 24 April 2009 - 09:16 AM

To achieve a 50mm field of view with the nikon or arri PL adapter, you would need a 10mm lens. a. This does not exist and, b. you will still have huge dof.

Alright, that's cool, but will I be able to zoom in and out without having a visible cornering where the redrock/letus sits?
I still need to put another lens at the end of the redrock/letus, don't I?
Like I said, I'm a noob and am probably extremely frustrating.
Thank you for helping me out.
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#15 Mikel Guillen

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Posted 30 April 2009 - 02:41 PM

here's what you need. ive tested and it works fine.

http://www.pstechnik...film-mini35.php

Cheers
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#16 Anatole Sloan

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Posted 02 May 2009 - 05:33 PM

Alright, that's cool, but will I be able to zoom in and out without having a visible cornering where the redrock/letus sits?
I still need to put another lens at the end of the redrock/letus, don't I?
Like I said, I'm a noob and am probably extremely frustrating.
Thank you for helping me out.


I'm afraid I haven't had personal experience with either the Redrock or the Letus, but you should almost certainly be able to zoom, if you have a zoom lens (such as a Nikon) attached to the end. You will require a lens, as all that is happening, effectively, is that it is viewing through the 35mm lens and focusing the image onto a ground glass. You can attach the adaptor to your XL lens, or the LetusXL allows you to attach the ground glass system straight to the body. This is basically what happens, and while the details may a bit wrong, its enough to get by. Have a look at some videos of DIY "35mm dof adaptors" so that you get an idea of what they are.
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