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90mins one shot film


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#1 Dev Varma

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 06:37 AM

Hi Guys,

planning to shoot one shot 90mins film on RED in London in october, its a challenging project...
will be releasing on theatre...

I need good suggestions...

my questions are.
1. if any other camera I can use than RED.
2. it will be on steady cam... so any lighter version of steadycam in the market.
3. how long the battery go of RED.
4. whats good to shoot on, 4k or 2k.
5. what else I have to think.
6. which high speed lens I should prefer.

waiting for the good answers...

thanks guys.
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#2 Peter Milanov

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 09:51 AM

Hi,

first of all, get a strong operator and pay him a lot...

I use an Ultra2 and with two powercubes I run the RED, a Preston, Cinetape and transmitter for about an hour, so power will be an issue. I would probably use a lighter monitor and an extra onboard battery.

If you don´t go for 4k use something else than RED. Sony and Panasonic have a lot of HD cameras, go to your rentalcompany and do some testing.

REDs own 18-50 zoom is light and would be a good choice.

Also, will RED be able to handle such a long take without overheating? The fans goes down during takes so it will be 90min without proper cooling.
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#3 Tom Jensen

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 10:28 AM

Hi Guys,

planning to shoot one shot 90mins film on RED in London in october, its a challenging project...
will be releasing on theatre...

I need good suggestions...

my questions are.

2. it will be on steady cam... so any lighter version of steadycam in the market.


waiting for the good answers...

thanks guys.


The human being is not a dolly. There is no Steadicam operator on earth that can last 90 minutes holding a shot in frame much less the rig. If and when take two comes around I imagine it would be time to call an ambulance for the poor guy. Rope has been done and I didn't really care for it. I can't imagine anything in a single shot capturing my attention for 90 minutes.
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#4 Simon Wyss

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 11:15 AM

Please, don't say film when it is a video. I shouldn't have dropped in had you written 90mins one shot video. Forgive me everybody for I'm a chemical film man.
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#5 Jason Debus

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 11:51 AM

The human being is not a dolly. There is no Steadicam operator on earth that can last 90 minutes holding a shot in frame much less the rig. If and when take two comes around I imagine it would be time to call an ambulance for the poor guy.


Perhaps Tilman Büttner could do it?
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#6 K Borowski

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 11:56 AM

This was done already with the F900. . .

Hitchcock was doing, what, 20 minute takes, in one of his films in the '50s, forget which one.

So this isn't new or original. It's been done before.

I'm sure there are a couple of 2,400-foot (720m) mags out there that would let you shoot 66 minutes continuously at 24fps.

If someone were to make a 3,000-foot (1000m) mag that'd be good for 82 minutes or so. . .
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#7 John Sprung

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 12:13 PM

The human being is not a dolly. There is no Steadicam operator on earth that can last 90 minutes holding a shot in frame much less the rig.


I remember a few years back there were some guys who were flying a steadicam operator hanging from a crane. They'd fly him in, a balance man would clip on behind him, and release him from the crane. They could also have the crane pick him up again, the balance guy would clip the operator on, then release himself.

The relevant thing is that for the flying part of it, the setup took most of the weight of the rig off the operator's body. You could fly along with your feet just barely touching the ground, it was really comfortable.

So, problem solved, all you need is room for a crane. ;-)




-- J.S.
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#8 Tom Jensen

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 12:32 PM

I remember a few years back there were some guys who were flying a steadicam operator hanging from a crane. They'd fly him in, a balance man would clip on behind him, and release him from the crane. They could also have the crane pick him up again, the balance guy would clip the operator on, then release himself.

The relevant thing is that for the flying part of it, the setup took most of the weight of the rig off the operator's body. You could fly along with your feet just barely touching the ground, it was really comfortable.

So, problem solved, all you need is room for a crane. ;-)




-- J.S.


I think he mentioned the shot was inside a Smart car. ;)
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#9 Michael Collier

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 03:50 PM

Watch the behind the scenes to Russian Ark. They did a oner 90 minute film. Not terribly exciting, but they did well on it. If I remember right they had the camera free and a guy with a backpack with computers recording the feed wirelessly. It can be done. They guy was a big guy, but he said somewhere around one hour he started to get very fatigued. Tilman Büttner was the steadicam op. Probably why Jason brought him up, I'd imagine.
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#10 Tom Jensen

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 04:01 PM

I'm sure he rested the sled on something quite a bit. I stand corrected. Maybe Tillman is available.
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#11 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 05:44 PM

I'm sure he rested the sled on something quite a bit. I stand corrected. Maybe Tillman is available.


I understand he stood on a platform dolly for one bit when tracking down a corridor.
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#12 Brad Smith

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 05:55 PM

I'm sure he rested the sled on something quite a bit. I stand corrected. Maybe Tillman is available.


There is no way to take the weight of the steadicam off the operator mid shot. In Russian Ark Tillman Buttner, used a custom Klassen vest and sat on a dolly for a rest, but he had the weight of the rig on him the whole time. Same goes for The Skyman system, Steadicams can be hardmounted to all kinds of vehicles or dollys, but that is a different setup to the operator wearing the rig and you certainly can't switch between the two mid shot. Maybe the shot could be broken into parts using some clever staging and camera wipes? As for lighter Steadicam systems, the Ultra2 is probably the lightest big rig. Tiffen make quite a few models, depending on the camera package you go with you could choose from several models. The Steadicam operator is going to be a very critical crew member on a project like this, I'd suggest getting an experienced op and working through your options with the guy (or girl) who is going to have to pull off the shot.

Brad
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#13 Tom Jensen

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 06:03 PM

There is no way to take the weight of the steadicam off the operator mid shot.
Brad


You can do just about anything if you are creative and have the tools.

Edited by Tom Jensen, 20 April 2009 - 06:04 PM.

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#14 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 07:36 PM

I wonder if you could do some crazy cablecam shooting....
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#15 Gus Sacks

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 07:39 PM

I'm sure there are a couple of 2,400-foot (720m) mags out there that would let you shoot 66 minutes continuously at 24fps.

If someone were to make a 3,000-foot (1000m) mag that'd be good for 82 minutes or so. . .


Could shoot 2-perf and make it happen ;)
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#16 Aaron Moorhead

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 08:31 PM

I would avoid Red if the question is "2k or 4k?" If there's any question that you might not need 4k on a 90 min short film, don't do it. Red is HEAVY, your operator will die, and the hard drive and dual mount batteries are extra weight.

If you're just outing to DVD, television, or even 35mm blowup for smaller screen theatrical distribution, you won't really need anything heftier than an EX3 with a 35mm adapter, a cam which is built for operating with one hand and I still was sweating after opping it for a couple 2 minute takes. Add to that remote focus, remote video monitor, and all the other crap that hangs off of a rig that can't have people nearby during the take, and you've got a Steadicam operator's nightmare. Consider a lighter camera like the EX1 or EX3, and consider modifying your requirements for a real steadicam or some spinoff that's built for lightweight video.

Good luck, sounds like a helluva challenge!
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#17 Brad Smith

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 09:09 PM

You can do just about anything if you are creative and have the tools.

Tom,

I was correcting you, as you said in your initial post.

Not top put to finer point on it but I was actually answering the question based on real world experience. I am a steadicam operator, and evidently more experienced than yourself.

Edited by Brad Smith, 20 April 2009 - 09:11 PM.

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#18 Tom Jensen

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 09:24 PM

Tom,

I was correcting you, as you said in your initial post.

Not top put to finer point on it but I was actually answering the question based on real world experience. I am a steadicam operator, and evidently more experienced than yourself.


Mmm..OK then. I guess I was just making things up then. So, how long have you been doing this thing called the Steadicam?

Edited by Tom Jensen, 20 April 2009 - 09:29 PM.

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#19 Peter Moretti

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Posted 21 April 2009 - 06:30 AM

I would avoid Red if the question is "2k or 4k?" If there's any question that you might not need 4k on a 90 min short film, don't do it. Red is HEAVY, your operator will die, and the hard drive and dual mount batteries are extra weight.
...

In fairness to Red, it's not heavey when compared to much of its digital competition, e.g F23, F35, F900.
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#20 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 21 April 2009 - 08:52 AM

You can do just about anything if you are creative and have the tools.


Also, being a Steadicam operator my advice is to carefully select the operator who's going to make film of yours happen. This is more important that talking about the camera kit. This operator will go through all the options and problems with the RED (or the other potential cameras). "Russian Ark" is a good starting point because you can see most of the problems in that film.

The RED may not be that bad weight wise, but it may need to be a specially stripped down rig and power for 90 mins could be an issue.
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