23 replies to this topic

[rob spence]

Hi,
The new S16 sized Ikonoskop coming out reminds me of some articles a few years back about building HD sensored magazines for arri and aaton S16 cameras...did this come to anything. It now seems like a fabulous idea... with hundreds of S16 cameras about already fitted with real shutters and through the lens viewfinders ala Arri D21 it could be a great way forward.
I wonder if a third party manufacturer would be allowed to develop this idea?

[Brian Drysdale]

Aaton are developing a 6K digital mag for the 35mm Penelope. In theory Aaton seem willing to explore digital, so I suppose if the right person made the right approach they would consider it, although 35mm sensors seem to be the flavour of the moment. Joe Dunton made a HD mag for the Arri SR a few years ago

[Saul Rodgar]

Hi,
The new S16 sized Ikonoskop coming out reminds me of some articles a few years back about building HD sensored magazines for arri and aaton S16 cameras...did this come to anything. It now seems like a fabulous idea... with hundreds of S16 cameras about already fitted with real shutters and through the lens viewfinders ala Arri D21 it could be a great way forward.
I wonder if a third party manufacturer would be allowed to develop this idea?

I agree. This could be a real boon, but alas, most new camera development start-ups seem to be bent on starting camera development from scratch instead of building on pre-existing technology. Maybe RED, SI et al could be talked into foraying into this market?

[Adrian Sierkowski]

I've said it before and I'll say it again; I would KILL for a Digi SR3 Mag..... If I can just own/maintain 1 camera and toggle between film and HD.. man.. that'd be fantastic!

[Saul Rodgar]

I've said it before and I'll say it again; I would KILL for a Digi SR3 Mag..... If I can just own/maintain 1 camera and toggle between film and HD.. man.. that'd be fantastic!

Ditto on that, nothing would make me happier than an Aaton digi-mag for my rig. One can only dream, or go off to engineering school to develop the technology.

[Adrian Sierkowski]

If I only knew how to solder

[John Sprung]

Once you have the digital magazine for the film camera up and working, the next step might be to reduce the weight and complexity of the system by making a non-film camera front end to work with the mag. You could leave out the expensive high precision pulldown mechanism and go with a smaller motor, greatly reducing the drain on the battery......

Or, you could just build a mirror shutter digital camera altogether, without working around any legacy parts.





-- J.S.

[rob spence]

The attraction of the idea is that we could shoot film AND digital...same concept as the penelope

[John Brawley]

Hi,
The new S16 sized Ikonoskop coming out reminds me of some articles a few years back about building HD sensored magazines for arri and aaton S16 cameras...did this come to anything. It now seems like a fabulous idea... with hundreds of S16 cameras about already fitted with real shutters and through the lens viewfinders ala Arri D21 it could be a great way forward.
I wonder if a third party manufacturer would be allowed to develop this idea?

Hi rob..

It's already been talked about several times on this list and one was built but there wasn't enough interest apparently.


http://www.urbanfox....19joedunton.htm

Aaton are planning one for there Penelope 35mm camera. I'd say it's some time away.

jb

[rob spence]

Hi John
thanks for the article...presumably the mag never happened, also the proposed price of $45,000 would be far too much nowerdays...it would have to be less than the price of a red by a fair margin. But with the technology getting cheaper and better all of the time that may not prove to be much of a problem. I would say it will be interesting to see how much 4k work is done compared with 2k work, this may tell us how much of a market there is. Does anyone know how many S16 Aatons there are being used, Joe Dunton recons in his article that there are 3,000 arri 16srs being used ( in 2003, the time of the article). ?

[Tim Carroll]

Does anyone know how many S16 Aatons there are being used?

Doesn't seem like many as they are going really cheap on eBay these days.

I love the idea of being able to use the whole front end of the camera, as well as all the accessories, matte box, rods, lenses, lens adapters, etc. and just swapping between a film mag or a digital mag. Would be nice.

Best,
-Tim

[Adrian Sierkowski]

See, it's times like this when I wish I was better at math/designing things because I'd certainly give building a new one of theses, a whirl.

[Tim Fabrizio]

I went to CSC's lighting workshop in October and PS Technik was there with their prototype for their digital mag for the SR3.

http://www.pstechnik...sr-magazine.php

[Adrian Sierkowski]

The PS Technik had been talked 'bout recently on here as well. Word on the street is that it'll require a whole gate change and the like, which would be unfortunate to say the least.

[rob spence]

Hi
I recently emailed P+S Technic to ask if they were going to produce a digimag for the Aaton...it seems not as yet, although I'm not sure why as there must be as many Aatons still out there as there are Arri SRs ?
Here's their reply
best
rob




Dear Mr. Spence

Thank you very much for your email.

We’re focusing on the development of a 16Digital SR Mag for the SR series only. Supporting other camera types with our mag isn’t planned as of yet.

Please find further details below:

The huge input and feedback that you gave us regarding our new 16 Digital Magazine has certainly encouraged us in our development.

Many new ideas came up which we’re following now to make this product as good and versatile as possible.

Now we’re glad to inform you about the specifications we can release already.

Based on the experience we’ve made in the past, we’re designing the 16 Digital SR Magazine to turn your SR camera not only into a high quality HD camera but also into a high end digital film camera. This innovative step of combining Digital Film and High Definition Video in one camera was already successfully carried out with the Weisscam HS-2.

Consequently we’re following this concept to expand your analogue film camera with those two digital formats. No other camera model on the market gives you the freedom of shooting digital film, HD Video and analogue film.

You’re already signed in to our 16 Digital SR mailing list we set up to keep you updated with the ongoing development.

If you don’t want to receive any further information about this product please reply with “unsubscribe 16D SR” in the subject header.

Sensor:

The sensor specifications are as follows:

Pixel Size
5µm

max. Resolution (HD-SDI)

1920x1080

Sensor Size @ HD Res.

9,6x5,4mm

max. Resolution

1968x1108

Sensor Size @ max. Res.

9,84x5,54mm

Sensitivity


F11/2000lx

Dynamic Range (linear mode)


60db/10-11 Blenden

Exposure through Mirror Shutter

Yes

Constant Black Set


Yes. With exterior located pixels on sensor



According to the specifications above we’ll deliver the SR Digital Magazine with a full HD Sensor.

Following the technological progress of sensors, P+ S Technik will also offer an upgrade to a Super16mm Sensor in future, once more saving the client’s investment.

Operation:

The input interface on the side of the mag will disappear and be replaced by an external device.

iPhone owners will be happy to know that we’re also considering preparing an App, allowing you to operate the mag at a tip of the finger.

Modification:

No modification on your Arri SR cameras (I, II, III) is necessary. Only the film gate needs to be replaced by a film gate we’ll provide with the mag.

You’ll always have the possibility to switch the film gates with easy, allowing you to once again, use 16mm film stock on your camera.

Miscellaneous:

We’re focusing on the development of a 16Digital SR Mag for the SR series only. Supporting other camera types with our mag isn’t planned as of yet.

Delivery time is estimated summer 2010.

As soon as we’ll have further announcements regarding the 16D SR Magazine I’ll let you know.


Mit besten Grüßen / Best Regards,

Simon Schleidt
Technical Sales Representative

[Tim Carroll]

Hi
I recently emailed P+S Technic to ask if they were going to produce a digimag for the Aaton...it seems not as yet, although I'm not sure why as there must be as many Aatons still out there as there are Arri SRs ?

Rob,

P+S Technic is a German company with a long history of working with another German company, ARRI, and making camera and optical parts for Arriflex cameras. I can't recall them doing much with Aaton over the years. I would be quite surprised if they came out with a digital mag for the Aaton cameras.

Best,
-Tim

[rob spence]

P and S technic seem to have finished their digi mag for the Arri SR3 ! Come on someone do it for the aaton !!!

http://www.pstechnik...tm_campaign=nab

[Deepak Bajracharya]

[Come on someone do it for the aaton !!!]

With the existing film gate.

With best regards,

[Brian Drysdale]

Here's Mitch Gross explaining the HD Mag

http://blog.abelcine...fers-beyond-4k/

[Mitch Gross]

Aaton is doing it in 35, not for their S-16 cameras. In today's world, the vast majority of interest is in 35mm-sizedimaging, not S-16. Tastes may change, but a manufacturer has to go to where the demand is.