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Roll break-downs


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#1 Paul Bruening

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 09:03 AM

You know, I've broken down a bunch of rolls of 16mm in my time. I've always used a hand built caliper of some kind. Usually, it was just a piece of mat board cut out to measure the diameter of the roll. As you might guess, this has not been utterly precise. Sure, it was good enough for the filming of football games and practices since we could afford to pull the roll out of the camera early and throw away the short ends. But, I would like to leach every last frame out of my 35mm short ends by knowing where the last 10 to 20 feet is occurring. To do this on Mitchell mags, I need a precise way to measure my rolls before shooting. I can run the store bought short ends through my magnasync counter. But, how can I break down longer rolls into shorter rolls and get a precise measure? Is there a bell I can put on my magnasync that will give me an auditory cue when I hit a preset length? Or should I break them down and then magnasync counter them?

I just wanted a lazier way to break down rolls in one step with some little bell-gadget. Any ideas or knowledge of an existing widget? A programmable digital widget for next-to-no cost would be peachy.
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#2 Paul Bruening

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 10:51 AM

I'm a dufus. It just occurred to me that I have a 4 qang sync with counter. I've also got processing leader, which is tough as nails. I've also got cue tape used by theater projectors. I can pre-measure this leader and put cue tape at important lengths. Heck, I could put it at differing width points on the leader to represent specified length points. Then, I load it into the sync and roll it with the film. When I get the beep or beep count I'm looking for, I cut the film stock and pack it up. That way I don't have to keep turning on the lights between every broken-down roll. I could do 3 gangways worth of film for every rolling of the cued leader. That could be 5, 200' rolls per gangway or 15, precisely cut 200' rolls before hassling with the lights.
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#3 Paul Bruening

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 11:01 AM

Even better. get 1,000' of old 35mm mag stock. You know, from the good ol' days of sound sync. I could record auditory remarks, like "200", "201", or "Cut here, dufus." and read it with an old mag head stripped out of a pawn shop cassette recorder. Run that through the magnasync with the film stock. I could make custom length cuts that way. Much more practical and useful than the cue tape idea.
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#4 K Borowski

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 11:55 AM

I thought you were looking at digital editing. There are definite advantages to NLE, like not having to spend the cost of a new car on a print you are ultimately just going to scratch up and destroy.

Work prints are just fine. . . if someone else is paying for them.

I'd save my money, if I were you, on a good optical release print. THOSE are worth it. What happens behind the scenes? It's irrelevant.

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
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#5 Bruce Taylor

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 04:16 PM

Work prints are just fine. . . if someone else is paying for them.

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.


Karl: sometimes I find your responses hard to follow, but you've really lost me on this one

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#6 Chris Keth

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 04:20 PM

I thought you were looking at digital editing. There are definite advantages to NLE, like not having to spend the cost of a new car on a print you are ultimately just going to scratch up and destroy.

Work prints are just fine. . . if someone else is paying for them.

I'd save my money, if I were you, on a good optical release print. THOSE are worth it. What happens behind the scenes? It's irrelevant.

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.


Did you respond after reading every tenth word or what? He's not talking about editing in any way, shape, or form.
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#7 K Borowski

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 04:30 PM

Did you respond after reading every tenth word or what? He's not talking about editing in any way, shape, or form.


You're right I did misread, sorry.

I thought he was talking about already-processed film.
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#8 K Borowski

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 04:31 PM

Karl: sometimes I find your responses hard to follow, but you've really lost me on this one

Bruce Taylor
www.indi35.com


At the same time, do I REALLY need not one, but two bashings? Sheesh, I doubt I'm the only person on here who's ever misread a post. . .
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#9 Chris Keth

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 05:27 PM

At the same time, do I REALLY need not one, but two bashings? Sheesh, I doubt I'm the only person on here who's ever misread a post. . .


Of course you're not. Relax.
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#10 K Borowski

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 06:11 PM

Relax.


:D

Yeah, sorry, I kind of am on the defensive today. . . There's something about people going around trying to kill of my line of work.
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#11 Chris Keth

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 06:41 PM

:D

Yeah, sorry, I kind of am on the defensive today. . . There's something about people going around trying to kill of my line of work.


E-gads, Batman!
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#12 Hal Smith

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 09:56 PM

Chr*st Paul, when you get to thinking out loud I think I can smell something burning. Could it be your brain?

I think you're on to something.

I've got a slightly different idea: I've got an old Moviola 4-gang sync left over from my days as an ethnographic film-maker. It's got 40 sprocket hole teeth around its circumference equal to one foot. With this sync one could add a little arm to the back gang after taking the rollers off and rig a microswitch to sense it. The contact closure could be used to key a tone generator to get a "BEEP" every foot. You'd have to keep count obviously but it would be fairly simple to implement. An alternative would be an IR photosensor reading an IR LED through a hole drilled in the read gang's back sprocket wheel.

If you wanted to do some more serious engineering you could even build an audible counter, I suspect googling around would find one already designed. Someone, somewhere has put together an audible counter for a sight impaired person who needed to be able follow a count by hearing it.

How many sprockets around your Magnasync's circumference? I suspect it's 64 sprocket teeth equal to 16 frames equal to one foot. If so, my idea would work with your sync.

Afterthought: I just Googled "audible counter" and got 197 hits. This one looks intriquing: http://nsf-pad.bme.u...aChapelHill.pdf
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