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I'm about to shoot, need some tips


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#1 Tom Law

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 05:01 PM

Hello all,

I am about to shoot a short film using Kodak 200t film, on my Nizo 560 camera. I will be shooting on the london underground - on platforms and on the train. I will be using a light meter as well.

Any tips or suggestions on how to get the best possible footage?

Cheers,

Tom
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#2 Tom Jensen

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 05:12 PM

What will you be shooting? People? Trains? What film stock?
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#3 andy oliver

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 05:39 PM

Hi, are you shooting in daylight or underground, suggest 500t if down in the drain. What f-stop is your lens? does the camera have an xl shutter?? Also have you obtained the relavant permission to film on the underground? Student passes to film cost around £10-£25.00, without such a pass, you will get approach and asked to stop filming.
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#4 Saul Rodgar

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 06:08 PM

Hi, are you shooting in daylight or underground, suggest 500t if down in the drain. What f-stop is your lens?


If you use 7217 (which I believe it is the only negative stock currently available for S-8) you should be OK cranked open at 24 fps, as the camera seems to have a 7mm to 56mm F/1.8 Schneider lens and variable shutter angle between 150 and 75 degrees. Use the 150 degree setting. 500T is going to be super grainy, but I guess it depends how you want to go at it. If you are using Tri X, your mid lows and blacks will crush rather fast, so you may want to push it one stop.

I wouldn't use a hand held light meter (usually set at 180 degrees) unless it has a shutter angle selector, or you are willing to do the math before hand, or roughly open up between 1/3 and 1/2 a stop from what your light meter reads at 180 degrees. If your camera has a working light meter, you may just
want to go with that, as it is calibrated to work with that camera's shutter angle.

http://www.cinematog...showtopic=30368

Edited by Saul Rodgar, 23 April 2009 - 06:09 PM.

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#5 Tom Law

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 06:08 PM

What will you be shooting? People? Trains? What film stock?


I will be shooting people, and the train (it is a scripted piece). And i 'm using Kodak vision2 200T
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#6 Tom Law

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 06:11 PM

Hi, are you shooting in daylight or underground, suggest 500t if down in the drain. What f-stop is your lens? does the camera have an xl shutter?? Also have you obtained the relavant permission to film on the underground? Student passes to film cost around £10-£25.00, without such a pass, you will get approach and asked to stop filming.


I am shooting underground. I have got permission. I would have thought the kodak vision2 200T should be ok at 24 fps?
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#7 Tom Law

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 06:15 PM

If you use 7217 (which I believe it is the only negative stock currently available for S-8) you should be OK cranked open at 24 fps, as the camera seems to have a 7mm to 56mm F/1.8 Schneider lens and variable shutter angle between 150 and 75 degrees. Use the 150 degree setting. 500T is going to be super grainy, but I guess it depends how you want to go at it. If you are using Tri X, your mid lows and blacks will crush rather fast, so you may want to push it one stop.

I wouldn't use a hand held light meter (usually set at 180 degrees) unless it has a shutter angle selector, or you are willing to do the math before hand, or roughly open up between 1/3 and 1/2 a stop from what your light meter reads at 180 degrees. If your camera has a working light meter, you may just
want to go with that, as it is calibrated to work with that camera's shutter angle.

http://www.cinematog...showtopic=30368


People often say that the light meter in the camera's aren't always that reliable. I'll be using a professional light meter, but forgive me i'm not that aware of how 'shutter angle' affects the image. Could you explain briefly? I'd really appreciate it :) .

Cheers
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#8 Tom Jensen

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 06:23 PM

I am shooting underground. I have got permission. I would have thought the kodak vision2 200T should be ok at 24 fps?


It might be but 500 would give you more. Take a meter down there ahead of time and take some measurements. I've never been in there but if you have pools of light you can walk them into that. Find the light available and use it. Don't make it too frontal, keep it kind of sidey and use a background that is lit up. Use a bounce card for fill. Just have someone hold it. Even if the face is a stop under on the bright side it will look good. Let the fill side go even darker.
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#9 Tom Jensen

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 06:31 PM

People often say that the light meter in the camera's aren't always that reliable. I'll be using a professional light meter, but forgive me i'm not that aware of how 'shutter angle' affects the image. Could you explain briefly? I'd really appreciate it :) .

Cheers


Hey look Wikipedia even has something, http://en.wikipedia....i/Shutter_angle Shutter angle effects the amount of time the film is exposed. In camera meters can be reliable, they just don't often do what you want.
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#10 Chris Burke

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 08:04 PM

If you use 7217 (which I believe it is the only negative stock currently available for S-8) you should be OK cranked open at 24 fps, as the camera seems to have a 7mm to 56mm F/1.8 Schneider lens and variable shutter angle between 150 and 75 degrees. Use the 150 degree setting. 500T is going to be super grainy, but I guess it depends how you want to go at it. If you are using Tri X, your mid lows and blacks will crush rather fast, so you may want to push it one stop.

I wouldn't use a hand held light meter (usually set at 180 degrees) unless it has a shutter angle selector, or you are willing to do the math before hand, or roughly open up between 1/3 and 1/2 a stop from what your light meter reads at 180 degrees. If your camera has a working light meter, you may just
want to go with that, as it is calibrated to work with that camera's shutter angle.

http://www.cinematog...showtopic=30368



Just so you know, Kodak offers 2 stocks in Super 8; 7217 and 7219. The latter is not super grainy at all. Also http://www.Pro8mm.com offers all kodak and fuji stock in Super 8, the processing and HD telecine.

I would recommend the 7219 for your shoot. It is not that much grainier than the 17. In fact, it isn't that grainy at all. Buy fresh from Kodak. Rate the stock one stop over so the grain is minimized a good deal. I have shot this stock underground in the subway, but have not seen the results yet, still at the lab. Rob Houllahan, have you seen it yet??
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#11 Jim Carlile

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Posted 25 April 2009 - 12:39 AM

If you're going to use ASA 500 in that Nizo, you need to manually set the exposure-- the auto meter will open up too much, because it will read the film at ASA 100, or 160 if you set the filter switch to tungsten...

So just close down the aperture a stop or more-- if it's really low light the meter will open up all the way, and that might be correct anyway-- so check with a handheld meter, but subtract about 3/4 stop for the light loss in the camera (!)

This all sounds complicated but it's not-- just close down the aperture about a stop if you're using 500. There's enough latitude in that film-- if it's really dim then the largest f/stop will be OK.

That camera's not XL-- the shutter angle creates about a 1/50th to 1/60th of a second exposure. The angle calculations are not critical nor is any setting, really. Let latitude take care of the differences.

Edited by Jim Carlile, 25 April 2009 - 12:43 AM.

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#12 Tom Law

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Posted 25 April 2009 - 04:59 AM

If you're going to use ASA 500 in that Nizo, you need to manually set the exposure-- the auto meter will open up too much, because it will read the film at ASA 100, or 160 if you set the filter switch to tungsten...

So just close down the aperture a stop or more-- if it's really low light the meter will open up all the way, and that might be correct anyway-- so check with a handheld meter, but subtract about 3/4 stop for the light loss in the camera (!)

This all sounds complicated but it's not-- just close down the aperture about a stop if you're using 500. There's enough latitude in that film-- if it's really dim then the largest f/stop will be OK.

That camera's not XL-- the shutter angle creates about a 1/50th to 1/60th of a second exposure. The angle calculations are not critical nor is any setting, really. Let latitude take care of the differences.


I'm using an ASA of 200, the camera won't be able to read it. I took a light meter down to the tube, and the average stop reading is at 2. So i'm going to have to keep it quite open a lot of the time.
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#13 Chris Burke

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Posted 25 April 2009 - 11:28 AM

I'm using an ASA of 200, the camera won't be able to read it. I took a light meter down to the tube, and the average stop reading is at 2. So i'm going to have to keep it quite open a lot of the time.


I f you have to use the 200T, then shoot almost wide open and push the film one stop. There is going to be grain no matter what, so you would be best to embrace the grain and go for the densest negative you can get.
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#14 Jim Carlile

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Posted 30 April 2009 - 12:24 AM

The Nizo will read V200 ASA 200 at ASA 100-- that's OK, it's by design. If you toggle the filter switch to tungsten, and the aperture closes down little (2/3 stop), the meter is being reset to ASA 160 (in those Nizos.) Either way, the lens is probably going to open up all the way anyway, in a subway, so it doesn't matter what the meter thinks. The only difference would be that the red 'not enough light' indicator might pop in, but ignore it.

If you think that the Nizo'smaximum aperture is not enough, then yes, push the film a stop. What I'd do is use V500 instead if you can-- it'll give you a stop-and-a-half more sensitivity.

You know, that Nizo has a time exposure feature that will allow you to shoot in darkness, practically. You need a tripod and static action, but it's great for very low light environments.
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