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How would you improve a 35mm camera?


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#1 Karel Bata

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 04:18 AM

Karl mentioned in another post here "thinner film base to allow for longer running time" and it made me wonder what else there might be...

;)
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#2 Tom Jensen

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 08:21 AM

I always thought that Panavision should build a camera with the door on the other side of the camera. You wouldn't have to move the eyepiece to reload, you wouldn't have the operator in your ear, and you could focus with your right hand. As an operator, you could grab the focus and you could see all the action with your left eye if you chose to look. But you couldn't communicate that well when you needed to with the ac. The matte box would have to open the other way.
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#3 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 08:38 AM

Swappable Digi/Film backs for ALL Cameras.
Smaller, Lighter, Quieter Cameras (235 size, but silent)
Perhaps a dual eye-piece for AC to look through for focus? Maybe?
Built in range-finder with display in the bottom of the eye-piece for run and gun shooting for operator to pull focus off of the lens from (if needed)
That's really all I can think of off of the top of my head.
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#4 Simon Wyss

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 08:42 AM

http://www.cinematog...h...59&hl=AONDA
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#5 Hal Smith

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 09:04 AM

Switch selectable 2, 3, or 4 perf operation with easy, no tool required, gate changes.
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#6 K Borowski

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 09:42 AM

Swappable Digi/Film backs for ALL Cameras.


Karel said *improvements*; this is a step backwards :-p
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#7 Kristian Schumacher

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 09:49 AM

Switch selectable 2, 3, or 4 perf operation with easy, no tool required, gate changes.

You get adjustable shutters, so why not adjustable gates. I mean, we are dreaming here...
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#8 K Borowski

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 10:02 AM

You get adjustable shutters, so why not adjustable gates. I mean, we are dreaming here...


Yeah sorry, I do not see it happening.

The Panavision Hylan system was a big jump, and we just heard something about it n here now 3 years after it came out.

No one wants to do anything at all in-camera anymore, so why add improvements that people aren't going to want?

Yeah, I think some sort of estar-base compatible film camera would be great. Estar stock is so much better than tri-acetate.
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#9 Tom Jensen

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 10:34 AM

Cameras should only weigh 1 ton instead of 3.
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#10 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 11:02 AM

You're always going to run into the problem that a 1000' load of 35mm stock has "x" size and weight. Yes, you could go to Estar base for negative stock, but then you risk breaking cameras because the film will never snap in the gate, plus neg cutters would have to deal with ultrasonic welds or whatever holds two pieces of Estar film together (less of an issue now that everything is being finished with a D.I.)

So figuring that odds are high that camera negative film will not be switched to Estar base, you've got the mag size & weight to deal with. When you eliminate that, 35mm cameras like the Millenium-X are quite small actually. At that point, the lens is practically taking up as much size & weight as the camera body, if not more when you're talking about zooms.

So these days, what you have are small 35mm bodies with big lenses at one end and big magazines at the other end (and big bright viewfinders on the side). So I don't see much further reduction of size & weight possible, not when you have to use 1000' loads, big modern lenses, and people want as big and bright a viewfinder image as possible. Not to mention all the electronics on the other side for video taps, etc. When you eliminate those, most modern 35mm cameras are just a tiny box with a movement inside.

Truth is that even if we could make that box even tinier, once you put back all the support stuff around it, plus all the gack that AC's like to use (Cinetape, onboard monitors, etc.) you'd never notice that the body got smaller.
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#11 Matthew Buick

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 04:33 PM

Affordability. 35mm movie cameras are SO expensive new. How about something like that Ikonoskop 16, it probably wouldn't work out costing much more.

And 100% viewfinder coverage should always be essential. What you see in the viewfinder should be what you get.
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#12 Tom Jensen

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 05:21 PM

For film cameras I would like to see an enhanced viewfinder that wasn't so dark and didn't have flicker. I would rather operate from a monitor anyway.
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#13 K Borowski

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 05:50 PM

For film cameras I would like to see an enhanced viewfinder that wasn't so dark and didn't have flicker. I would rather operate from a monitor anyway.


Isn't that already an option? Just steal one from a Steadicam setup. . .
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#14 K Borowski

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 05:55 PM

Also, why does it have to be 3/1000" Estar base? Why can't they make a base plastic that behaves like triacetate that is thinner?

Also, since the weight of the emulsion material itself is probably trivial compared to the weight of the 3/1000" (76.2nm / .0762mm) base, I'd assume that it wouldn't cut weight in half, but pretty close, like a 40-45% weight reduction.

And, right, with DI finishes becoming ubiquitous, splicing is no longer a problem.
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#15 Satsuki Murashige

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 06:14 PM

More coaxial instant-loading mags, XTR Prod balance and size/weight. Oh, yeah - thanks, Aaton. Now if it were 4-perf, around 20dB at 24fps, and went up to 75fps-150fps range, that'd be close to perfect.

*Oh yeah, and an HD video tap.

Edited by Satsuki Murashige, 27 April 2009 - 06:14 PM.

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#16 Tom Jensen

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 06:21 PM

Isn't that already an option? Just steal one from a Steadicam setup. . .


Steadicam might have something new but last time I saw one it was an eerie green. I'm talking about something in the viewfinder like a hi res bright flickerless color video. But then there would be not need to have an eyepiece I guess.
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#17 K Borowski

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 08:33 PM

*Oh yeah, and an HD video tap.


Wouldn't that be nice?

I was thinking about this, and, perhaps this isn't possible, but what about some sort of special non-anti-halo film extra sensitive sensor combination that allows you to see exactly what the emulsion sees, rather than the opposite of what it sees.

Or, a beamsplitter that only eats up a half a stop or so that is exactly sync-ed up with the shutter.
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#18 Hunter Hampton

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 12:45 AM

I like the silent 235 idea. A digital magazine option would be great too!
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#19 Karel Bata

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 04:14 AM

Oh yeah, and an HD video tap.

Could be a prob with clients thinking that's exactly what it will look like. I remember the first time we used a flicker-free color tap and during playback someone said "Are those yesterday's rushes?" So bring back the phillips B+W tube cameras I say. Always dark, slightly skewiff, and never in focus. The DoP was god then.

Seriously though, the technology is there for an optional viewfinder overlay (like an HUD) that would process what's coming from the video tap and display information, like focus and exposure. Like switchable zebras.

Infra-red focus that could be aimed with a joystick via the video tap?
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#20 John Brawley

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 04:28 AM

*Oh yeah, and an HD video tap.



I think Arri have just announced a HD split at NAB...

I'd like a spirit level (plane style) in the viewfinder as an option. And some optional overlays for camera status DSLR style....

And a viewfinder I can take my eye away from while it's rolling....

jb
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