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35 Lenses on a S16camera


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#1 B Stone

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 03:32 PM

Hey guys,
I'm shooting a short on either an SRIII or 416 and know that I can put PL 35mm Lenses on
the cameras. What happens with the field of view? For instance, If you put a 18mm 35 lens
on 16mm camera what is it equivalent to. I'm just trying to figure out if I should use 35lens instead of 16mm lenses. I want to shoot arri super speed primes and the s16mm 9.5mm (23.75mm equivalant to 35) isn't wide enough for me.

So is it worth trying to get 35 lenses for these camera's?
what are the +/-'s with shooting on 35 lenses on a 16mm camera?
will there be better sharpness from edge to edge?

thanks
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#2 Tim Carroll

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 04:15 PM

The focal length of the lenses are the same whether you use them on 35mm cameras or 16mm cameras. A 25mm lens is going to be a 25mm lens whether you put it on a 35mm camera or Super 16 camera.

Many lenses for 16mm cameras won't cover the full negative area of 35mm so you shouldn't use 16mm lenses on 35mm cameras.

The biggest issue you will run into using 35mm lenses on a Super 16 camera is finding lenses that are wide enough, and in some cases the 35mm lenses won't be as high contrast as the 16mm lenses (I am thinking about when you compare the Cooke Speed Panchro lenses (35mm) with the Cooke Kinetal Lenses (16mm), though these are all older lenses).

A standard lens set for shooting Super 16 would run somewhere around 9.5mm up to maybe 50mm, whereas a standard lens set for shooting 35mm would run somewhere around 16-18mm up to 75-85mm or maybe 100mm. So if you are getting a 35mm prime lens set to shoot Super 16 with, you are going to be lacking on the wide end of the range.

Best,
-Tim
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#3 Tom Jensen

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 05:07 PM

The focal length of the lenses are the same whether you use them on 35mm cameras or 16mm cameras. A 25mm lens is going to be a 25mm lens whether you put it on a 35mm camera or Super 16 camera.

-Tim


And the rest of what Tim said................It's only the film gate that changes. Just think of the gate as cropping the image. And always make sure when using a lens that you have never used before, especially wide angle lenses, clear the shutter. Some lenses have to be shaved so the shutter clears. The way to check is to inch the knob so the shutter is clear. Place the lens on the camera and SLOWLY inch the shutter around until you either hit the lens or clear the lens. Shutters and their replacements are very expensive. If you have ever noticed a chip on a mirrored shutter this may be why. There really is no advantage that I see to using 35mm lenses in 16mm. It may be even cheaper to rent 16mm lenses. That's what they were designed to do. Work in 16mm. I can't remember off the top of my head if there is a set of 16mm lenses that are a T1.3 but speed could be the one advantage.

Edited by Tom Jensen, 06 May 2009 - 05:12 PM.

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#4 Oliver Christoph Kochs

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Posted 07 May 2009 - 02:01 AM

B Stone, I assume the lenses will be Arri PL mount. If you have really checked the Flange Focal Distance of the lenses:
Will there be better sharpness from edge to edge?
YES, the gate uses only the sweet spot / middle of the lenses.
Tom states: Some lenses have to be shaved so the shutter clears...
This is right but that is 99% only for standard 16mm lenses. Especially older (rehoused) rear lens elements protude too far into the camera for most S16 and 35mm cams.
I have used my Zeiss 35mm lenses on S16 cams with best results.
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#5 James Martin

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Posted 12 May 2009 - 03:14 PM

@ Tom Jensen

Yes, there is at least one set of 16mm primes that do T1.3 - the Zeiss Distagon series. They have been around since at least the early 90s, I have used some that came with Panavision's student kit. Far as I understand it they are often seen as one of the best 16mm lenses of the time, possibly even still (lenses are a taste thing as much as anything else I have noticed).

The kit I had featured a 9.5, a 12, a 16 and a 25. I am sure there were others available (maybe a 35/50?)

JM
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#6 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 12 May 2009 - 03:56 PM

Optar Illumina also maked T1.3 lenses for S-16mm. My set is a 9.5~25mm, and they also make a 50.
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#7 Rob Vogt

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 05:10 PM

The zeiss superspeeds are also T1.3 (9.5 12 16 25 and 50(though the 25 and 50 might be a T1.6)) . The ultra 16s are a T1.9 but are the newest so you'll probably get some nice color reproduction/sharpness and so on.
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#8 Rohan Dadswell

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 05:32 PM

The Optar Illuminas also have a 8mm (8,9.5, 12, 16, 25 & 50) - all T1.3

I have used them on the Aanton A Min and SI-2K and have been quite happy with the results.
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#9 guim ster

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 10:03 AM

Hi,

Do you guys know if the Schneider Arriflex Cine Xenon 28mm f2 covers super 16 ?
And the Zeiss Jena Arriflex 35mm f/2 ?
And Schneider-Kreuznach Cinegon 16mm 1.4 ? All of them on arri st mount.

It's 35 mm lenses so it should cover super 16 gate ?

But i've redden that some short focal length doesn't. It's for mount on an arri SR2 super 16 modified and PL mount.

Thanks a lot

G.//
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#10 Will Montgomery

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 02:37 PM

Do you guys know if the Schneider Arriflex Cine Xenon 28mm f2 covers super 16 ?

Yes

And the Zeiss Jena Arriflex 35mm f/2 ?

Yes

And Schneider-Kreuznach Cinegon 16mm 1.4 ? All of them on arri st mount.

Yes

It's 35 mm lenses so it should cover super 16 gate ?

Yes

Any lens designed for use with a 35mm movie camera or a 35mm still camera will cover the Super 16 format no problem. The issue will be your mount. Remember that it's not just a matter of getting an adapter, PL mount lenses have a much different flange distance than say a Nikon lens. So therefore the lens adapter has to hold the lens either closer or farther away from the film plane if you want to be able to focus at infinity.

If they are all Arri Standard mount and you can buy various PL adapters for them but make sure an experienced lens tech checks it so you mount it in the correct place on the barrel. They also sit really close to the body so changing focus and aperture is a little awkward.
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#11 guim ster

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 07:58 AM

Thanks a lot for your answer.

so you mount it in the correct place on the barrel.


What do mean by this way? I know that the flange range is the point for still 35 mm lenses to pl mount camera but in that case, arri st to pl, how can i know if the focus will be ok.

Greats

g.//
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#12 Will Montgomery

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 10:10 AM

What do mean by this way? I know that the flange range is the point for still 35 mm lenses to pl mount camera but in that case, arri st to pl, how can i know if the focus will be ok.

Some of the Arri Standard to PL adapters are just rings that slip on to the lens and are secured by tiny screws that just tighten around the lens barrel. Therefore the mount can slide up and down on the barrel. They should automatically stop at the right place, but it's always good to have it checked out by a tech to make sure they don't need to be adjusted a little. Shouldn't cost very much; if you have the right tools and know what you're doing it is easy to check.

Check with local rental houses, if they rent film cameras they'll have a tech that knows how to check it.
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