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Cinematography: Film tests


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#1 Robert Sawin

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Posted 25 May 2009 - 04:17 PM

I set out to experiment on different types of motion picture film and manipulate them in developing. I worked with several different types of stock namely, Kodak 7219, 7201, 7285 and Fuji film F-64D and ETERNA250D. I wanted to take advantage of the diverse selection of stocks to choose from. I chose not to place emphasis on lens selection and camera technique. I predominantly used the 10 mm lens to shoot many of my film tests on. I mainly choose the 10 mm lens because it is better suited for landscape photography. I also conducted experiments using different types of filters including gradients. In the development I wanted to experiment with skip bleach and Pushing and pulling the film stock.

If you are interested In viewing all the test I have done please view the youtube channel to view the 16mm motion picture test.

http://www.youtube.com/user/3980time

Or you can click the the 16 mm cinematography test link on the left hand side of the page

http://trip3980.googlepages.com/home

I decided to do this for those who are interested in conducting or learning about various film test and special development process with different stocks. So this is for the cinematography community to enjoy and I hope these tests help.

I am always hungary for working more with motion picture film projects so if you are interested let me know and I would love to help.

Thank you and please feel free to ask me any question or comments you wish or post any link to something that may help other cinematographers with future test ideas.

Regards,
Robert Sawin
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#2 Robert Sawin

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Posted 25 May 2009 - 09:18 PM

Don't be shy I see people are viewing the thread but it is ok to respond. :) Really I did this for the aspiring and practicing cinematographers. Any criticism is greatly welcome. :)
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#3 Jason Hinkle (RIP)

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Posted 26 May 2009 - 01:30 AM

Don't be shy I see people are viewing the thread but it is ok to respond. :) Really I did this for the aspiring and practicing cinematographers. Any criticism is greatly welcome. :)


Thanks for posting this Robert, I really appreciate it because I haven't shot on all these stocks so it's nice to get a look at them as well as the processing changes. I'm curious, do you work in a lab or have somewhere where you can experiment with different processing techniques?

Edited by Jason Hinkle, 26 May 2009 - 01:30 AM.

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#4 Robert Sawin

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Posted 26 May 2009 - 01:49 AM

Thanks for posting this Robert, I really appreciate it because I haven't shot on all these stocks so it's nice to get a look at them as well as the processing changes. I'm curious, do you work in a lab or have somewhere where you can experiment with different processing techniques?


Thanks for posting. No I do not work in a lab. I got all this done at foto kem. I knew what I wanted when I was testing the stocks. I was more concerned with the quality of the grain structure and the clarity of the image. If I do it again I probably would mix things up more and go more extreme on the pulling. like do a pull and a skip bleach and a cross process on a color reversal all on one stock. or maybe pull 4 or 5 stops. color is way more forgiving then B&W. and foto kem won't do any thing too extreme unless you bend there hand backwards or tell them it is a different stock. like saying a 250 stock is a 50 stock. something like that.

I have been doing amateur photography for 13 years so these special process are not new to me. But motion picture film is so different then still in so many ways.
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#5 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 26 May 2009 - 10:40 AM

I can't really judge film tests a small compressed window on a computer. Could you scan the negative and post some frames?
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#6 Robert Sawin

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Posted 26 May 2009 - 11:39 AM

I can't really judge film tests a small compressed window on a computer. Could you scan the negative and post some frames?


I made a tiff image sequence. Hopefully this will help. :)
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#7 Robert Sawin

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Posted 26 May 2009 - 11:46 AM

I made a tiff image sequence. Hopefully this will help. :)

http://www.2shared.c...e_sequence.html

http://www.2shared.c...quence.zip.html
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#8 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 26 May 2009 - 12:16 PM

http://www.2shared.c...e_sequence.html

http://www.2shared.c...quence.zip.html


The instructions are really confusing for that site. You click on the "download zip file" and it opens another web page under the page that you only find when you close the top page, and then you hit download on that page... and the download went god knows where, it's not visible on my desktop. I give up.

Couldn't you just post frames on a web page or something simple that doesn't involve downloading files?
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#9 Robert Sawin

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Posted 26 May 2009 - 12:21 PM

The instructions are really confusing for that site. You click on the "download zip file" and it opens another web page under the page that you only find when you close the top page, and then you hit download on that page... and the download went god knows where, it's not visible on my desktop. I give up.

Couldn't you just post frames on a web page or something simple that doesn't involve downloading files?


all the way at the bottom it says "Save file to your PC: click here" click on the "click here" text.
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#10 Robert Sawin

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Posted 26 May 2009 - 12:51 PM

all the way at the bottom it says "Save file to your PC: click here" click on the "click here" text.


Let me know if you got it to download. :)
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#11 Robert Sawin

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 09:26 AM

I am actually kinda surprised I was expecting more activity in this thread. I mean when I set out to do these tests it was like I could not find anything out there public to give me an idea as to how film stock reacts under different development process. And I have seen all of Kodak and fuji films demos but nothing like this before. Really as a community of cinematographers it would be nice if we shared our tests and experiences. I mean at least this is how I feel.
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#12 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 09:57 AM

I am actually kinda surprised I was expecting more activity in this thread. I mean when I set out to do these tests it was like I could not find anything out there public to give me an idea as to how film stock reacts under different development process. And I have seen all of Kodak and fuji films demos but nothing like this before. Really as a community of cinematographers it would be nice if we shared our tests and experiences. I mean at least this is how I feel.


I'm sorry but I looked at your video and the You Tube like quality makes it pointless as a test to comment on, and you are making it too much of an effort to look at still frames by having us download zip files, etc. Why not post the frames on a webpage so we can just look at it?

If your test was presented in a better manner, I think we would be commenting on it. I can only spend so much time trying to look at someone's tests.
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#13 Saul Rodgar

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 12:05 PM

Indeed, downloading from that site is not easy. I gave up . . .

As David says, posting a still of each picture at the different apertures would work well for our purposes.

But from what I can see, the test confirms my experiences with film stock: it generally handles over exposure a better than under exposure.
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#14 Robert Sawin

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 04:12 PM

I'm sorry but I looked at your video and the You Tube like quality makes it pointless as a test to comment on, and you are making it too much of an effort to look at still frames by having us download zip files, etc. Why not post the frames on a webpage so we can just look at it?

If your test was presented in a better manner, I think we would be commenting on it. I can only spend so much time trying to look at someone's tests.


well this is kinda sad cause the web inherently has a lack of quality but it does not mean that we should not at least try to share our findings. I mean I really think I am the first to really do this in this way. But I don't want to be the last. I believe that we are a community of cinematographers and we should at least upload videos and images to the community for others to learn. But that is my opinion.

Here is another Download link of the uncompressed image sequence. Enjoy. :D Let me know if this works for you.

http://www.mediafire...04e75f6e8ebb871

http://www.mediafire...php?qqnzznejknm
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#15 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 05:06 PM

I'm not going to download zip files to my computer. Please post the photos on a website if you want me to look at them.
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#16 Robert Sawin

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 05:25 PM

I'm not going to download zip files to my computer. Please post the photos on a website if you want me to look at them.


Sorry I can't It is over a 100 mbs. It is too many to sort through. But you are more then welcome to have at it if you like. I am just doing my part. Sorry if you feel that downloading the file is too much for you. :(
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#17 Art Leal

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 07:16 PM

[quote

I decided to do this for those who are interested in conducting or learning about various film test and special development process with different stocks. So this is for the cinematography community to enjoy and I hope these tests help.

I am always hungary for working more with motion picture film projects so if you are interested let me know and I would love to help.

Thank you and please feel free to ask me any question or comments you wish or post any link to something that may help other cinematographers with future test ideas.

Regards,
Robert Sawin
[/quote]


Robert:

Many thanks for this. I'm just starting out with 16mm and find myself using older stocks (7239, 7250) to run tests since my K-3 and Scoopic 16 auto meters do not work...which is a good thing since it forces me to use a meter and actually think about how to expose a film. So it's a learning process for me but these help incredibly, especially seeing stocks other than Kodak. I like to view them to see the color qualities of each and how they can be used creatively to depict different moods in stories.

Hope you don;t mind that I may be posting questions under some of those listed in Youtube. The quality may not be the greatest, but clicking the HQ option helps enough for me to get a rough estimate of what to expect.

Again, many thanks!

Art
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#18 Robert Sawin

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 11:07 PM

[quote name='Art Leal' post='288357' date='May 27 2009, 05:16 PM'][quote

I decided to do this for those who are interested in conducting or learning about various film test and special development process with different stocks. So this is for the cinematography community to enjoy and I hope these tests help.

I am always hungary for working more with motion picture film projects so if you are interested let me know and I would love to help.

Thank you and please feel free to ask me any question or comments you wish or post any link to something that may help other cinematographers with future test ideas.

Regards,
Robert Sawin



Robert:

Many thanks for this. I'm just starting out with 16mm and find myself using older stocks (7239, 7250) to run tests since my K-3 and Scoopic 16 auto meters do not work...which is a good thing since it forces me to use a meter and actually think about how to expose a film. So it's a learning process for me but these help incredibly, especially seeing stocks other than Kodak. I like to view them to see the color qualities of each and how they can be used creatively to depict different moods in stories.

Hope you don;t mind that I may be posting questions under some of those listed in Youtube. The quality may not be the greatest, but clicking the HQ option helps enough for me to get a rough estimate of what to expect.

Again, many thanks!

Art[/quote]

Hi art I am glad you found the visuals useful. I updated my webpage so you can have many resources and more. I edited the footage at apples 422 codec so there is little loss and compressed the footage using h264 codec and uploading it I found that it was better then my other uploads at least I think. the bad thing about youtube is that it compresses the footage even further but it at least it works some what. don't be afraid to download the zip file the images are uncompressed so you can better judge for your self. I am really excited in contributing to the cinematography community and hope to see bigger and better things from it.

I hope your projects go well. :)
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#19 Brad Webb

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 03:13 AM

Because I really want to hear what Mr. Mullen has to say about these tests I downloaded your zip file and converted all 100 files into jpegs. I can only post 1 or 2 per reply so I'll try and pick some good ones and post as many as I can tonight. (It is 1:15am so it might only be a couple for now).

First up is the Fuji 250D.

Robert_M_Sawin_III_000_02.jpg Robert_M_Sawin_III_000_03.jpg g]
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#20 Hampus Bystrom

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 03:16 AM

Yeah Cheers Robert! As you probably already can see it's not all that much help to established and experienced cinematographers and filmmakers. But me I've just shot super8 and digital and are trying to collect some money for a 16mm short, so this is really great for me!
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