Jump to content


Photo

S16 short film: Kodak 7229, 7205


  • Please log in to reply
9 replies to this topic

#1 Andy Karkut

Andy Karkut
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 37 posts
  • Student
  • Los Angeles

Posted 01 June 2009 - 07:00 PM

I am shooting a S16 short film on the Arri SR3 and would really appreciate input from members here. (I first searched and read some excellent advice in previous posts.)

The story is about a grownup man who rides a child's bike, which keeps getting stolen (cute, quirky vibe). The action takes place primarily in his apartment, the balcony, and outside in his green courtyard.

The director and I have decided to go for a low-con look, with desaturated colors, to lend the short a 'European' feel. Unfortunately there is no money to test. Here are some details:

1) Interior: Kodak 7229 500T
2) Exterior: To keep the low-con look, I originally wanted to use the 7229 w/ 85filter, but realized that at 500T, the number of NDs needed would be crazy and the viewfinder will be very dark. Thinking about using Kodak 7205 250D and desaturating colors during Telecine (HD 1080p). Reasonable enough plan? I didn't opt for the 7201 50D because we need the extra 2 stops as the sun dips (owing to electrical restrictions, our lighting package for the exterior courtyard is...reflectors and mirrors!)
3) Filters: For all daytime exterior scenes will use a Pola with the 7205, which I understand adds a bit saturation to the image. Any other filters you recommend to help desaturate colors before its eventual timing during telecine?
3) Controlling exposure and color correction: The character will be frequently moving to and from his balcony, back into his room. I am bit concerned about how the tungsten stock will hold up for moments when he goes to his balcony (brighter), and the camera is still in the room observing his actions. Summary: (1) expose for exterior, compensate w/ ambient lights for interior? (2) Will the exterior of balcony look more blue?
4) Lighting tips: There is a brief scene of character being thrown out the backdoor of a nightclub. I want the colors to pop in this, and believe the 7205 would be OK (for this scene we will have a 1.2 HMI and 4x4 Kinos). Suggestions?

Thanks for your time!
  • 0

#2 Andy Karkut

Andy Karkut
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 37 posts
  • Student
  • Los Angeles

Posted 01 June 2009 - 07:16 PM

May I also add that I plan to expose throughout at f2.8. We will have Zeiss superspeeds.

(We have a ridiculously low budget, but fortunately our school is helping us out with camera, lenses and lights.)

Edited by Andrew Kassagi, 01 June 2009 - 07:17 PM.

  • 0

#3 Andy Karkut

Andy Karkut
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 37 posts
  • Student
  • Los Angeles

Posted 02 June 2009 - 09:21 PM

Come on, guys, don't leave me hanging!
  • 0

#4 Charles MacDonald

Charles MacDonald
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1157 posts
  • Other
  • Stittsville Ontario Canada

Posted 02 June 2009 - 09:43 PM

Come on, guys, don't leave me hanging!

What do you want to know that is not in the previous posts?
You seem to be planning an "electronic" edit, so saturation is a twist of the control away.
otherwise you seem to have spent some time on making a well considered film choice.

As far as the mixed light, My own opinion is that a slightly "warm" interior looks more natural than a "cold exterior" but you can split the difference if needed. A large budget picture would just gel the windows to match the tungsten light, or else use HMI on the interior, and of course pick the film/filter combination that would work for them. If the character is going right outside, you may have to treat the whole scene as being daylight and use the HMI interior lights.

If thenightclub scene is suposed to have a glaring colour effect, you might want to use the Fuji Vivid, which will probably be a bit jaring when inter-cut with the Kodak.
  • 0

#5 Vincent Sweeney

Vincent Sweeney
  • Sustaining Members
  • 686 posts
  • Director
  • LA at the moment.

Posted 04 June 2009 - 03:31 AM

Leave desaturation up to post color grading and, more importantly, to costume and art direction. Don't overlook those two factors in creating a look. It has more to do with it than any filter, lens or stock choice.
  • 0

#6 Andy Karkut

Andy Karkut
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 37 posts
  • Student
  • Los Angeles

Posted 04 June 2009 - 06:43 PM

Thanks for your responses.

Any thoughts on trying to create a blue early morning look during the day (we're shooting between 10am and 12pm)?

My first idea was to use tungsten (Kodak 7229) stock without 85 filter. We don't have lights for this exterior scene, but reflectors and flags. (Note the sky will not be in the frame, so that makes things a little simpler).
  • 0

#7 Chris Burke

Chris Burke
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1675 posts
  • Boston, MA

Posted 04 June 2009 - 07:26 PM

Thanks for your responses.

Any thoughts on trying to create a blue early morning look during the day (we're shooting between 10am and 12pm)?

My first idea was to use tungsten (Kodak 7229) stock without 85 filter. We don't have lights for this exterior scene, but reflectors and flags. (Note the sky will not be in the frame, so that makes things a little simpler).



well, depending upon the amount of sun out that day (it may be cloudy) I would shoot with the 05 put an amber or orange filter over the gray scale, then remove it for shooting. The lab will filter out the amber/orange, leaving the rest of the footage bluish. You could also play it safe and just do the timing digitally and dial in any blue you want. Are you aware at how grainy the 7229 is? I like the look, but it is a good deal grainier than the 05

Edited by Chris Burke, 04 June 2009 - 07:27 PM.

  • 0

#8 Andy Karkut

Andy Karkut
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 37 posts
  • Student
  • Los Angeles

Posted 05 June 2009 - 02:49 PM

Also thinking about using tungsten stock (7229) uncorrected at night with HMI and Kinos for an overall blue look.

Should I shoot a grey scale at the head of the roll under a *tungsten* (Arri 650w) light, so the lab doesn't time out the blue for the dailies?
  • 0

#9 Chris Burke

Chris Burke
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1675 posts
  • Boston, MA

Posted 07 June 2009 - 01:36 PM

Also thinking about using tungsten stock (7229) uncorrected at night with HMI and Kinos for an overall blue look.

Should I shoot a grey scale at the head of the roll under a *tungsten* (Arri 650w) light, so the lab doesn't time out the blue for the dailies?



I would shoot a grey scale for each major lighting change. So, yes under a tungsten light for a blue look. But it may be easier to use tungsten at night because it is the common light source at night. Just use a cooling filter in front of the lens, amber or pale amber, when you shoot the grey scale, then remove it when you shoot the scene. This way, the lab will time out the cooling gel on the scale and your scene will look blue. Either way will work.
  • 0

#10 Andy Karkut

Andy Karkut
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 37 posts
  • Student
  • Los Angeles

Posted 09 June 2009 - 07:24 PM

I believe I get it, but want to make sure I don't make any mistakes. Here are the steps I will follow to make the nightime exterior bluer using tungsten stock (Kodak 7229):

1) Shoot a grey scale at the head of the roll, with 85 filter infront of lens
2) Cover the lens with full CTO gel
3) Remove 85 filter and CTO gel for the actual scenes
(I am also thinking of using an 81EF filter for the actual scenes to make sure I don't overkill on the blue look, then finetine in telecine -- what do you think?)
  • 0


Rig Wheels Passport

Glidecam

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Paralinx LLC

Willys Widgets

rebotnix Technologies

Abel Cine

CineTape

Aerial Filmworks

Ritter Battery

Tai Audio

Metropolis Post

Technodolly

Broadcast Solutions Inc

CineLab

Wooden Camera

The Slider

FJS International, LLC

Opal

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Visual Products

FJS International, LLC

Rig Wheels Passport

Tai Audio

Paralinx LLC

rebotnix Technologies

CineLab

Visual Products

The Slider

Ritter Battery

Glidecam

CineTape

Willys Widgets

Metropolis Post

Opal

Wooden Camera

Aerial Filmworks

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Technodolly

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Abel Cine