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how to question for super 8


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#1 Craig Greenbergs

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Posted 04 June 2009 - 06:45 PM

one "effect" if I can call it that, that i often see on super 8 films is like a flash of light at the beginning of a scene, how is this acheived ? I'm not really sure how else to describe it, but I think you will understand what I am talking about ?

thanks

- Craig
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#2 Keneu Luca

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Posted 04 June 2009 - 07:19 PM

This is a result of the shutter being left open after each take. When shooting, the film runs past the gate where it gets exposed as the shutter opens to allow light through. When you stop filming, sometimes the shutter stays open, thereby keeping that one frame exposed, which only takes a second to make it a clear frame (all white). The entire frame is exposed. More advanced cameras avoid this problem by ensuring the shutter will always remain closed when not running.

Also, once you trigger the run button, some cameras take a few frames to get up to proper speed, which means maybe 2 or so frames are overexposed to a degree, so you have that quick flash effect.

Edited by Keneu Luca, 04 June 2009 - 07:20 PM.

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#3 Craig Greenbergs

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 12:00 AM

i see, so if I wanted to do this on purpose, get a crappy old super 8 from someones basement and do those shots with that right? ;)
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#4 Jamie Noakes

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 01:26 AM

i see, so if I wanted to do this on purpose, get a crappy old super 8 from someones basement and do those shots with that right? ;)


I wouldn't suggest getting a crappy old super 8 camera from someones basement - as ther ecould be all sorts of problems with it.
Another way to acheive the effect would be to unload and reload the cart before/after/during the scene you want the effect in- this will expose a few frames to 'white out' and bleed into the adjacent frames - depends on what you want - you could do it once and then use that 'white out' several times during editing.
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#5 Adam Garner

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 09:49 AM

one "effect" if I can call it that, that i often see on super 8 films is like a flash of light at the beginning of a scene, how is this acheived ? I'm not really sure how else to describe it, but I think you will understand what I am talking about ?

I think what you're referring to is called film roll-in / roll-out. It's not at the beginning of a scene, necessarily, but at the beginning/end of a cartridge of film. It's the result of the ends of the film being exposed and not having the exact chemical coating as the rest of the film. It's sort of a crazy light show, rather than a flash of light. Not an effect, but a "feature" of the film. If you shoot super 8, you'll get this every time. If you take the film out of a camera you will not get this roll-in / roll out effect, but more of a white flash for a frame or two.

Don't think a crappy old super 8 is a good idea. I am not sure why people assume "and old crappy camera" is ok with super 8. The difference between film shot on a high end canon or nikon vs. a low end no-name camera is like night and day. With modern film stocks low grain super 8 is a pretty amazing image.
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#6 Craig Greenbergs

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 05:40 PM

thanks for the tips, I will be shooting my short with what I hope is a somewhat respectable camera (Chinon 506 sml xl with max8 wide gate modification) but I was just suggesting that if I wanted to get that overexposed frame look, I might take a shot or two with a crappier cam.. that is of course, if those are the source of the "effect"

but now that I've learned more I guess I will just time my shots where I want that effect to start att he beginning of film rolls,

spinoff question - If I take a film roll out while its only half used, amI gonna get a total white spot on that frame? obviously... right? but will that slighlty bleed to the other frames... as in if I just open the door to the cam for a few seconds will it just bleed a bit in both directions ?
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#7 Richard Tuohy

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 07:31 PM

g'day craig,
a few things. First, some camera, but only some, leave the shutter open at the end of a take. To find such a camera would be quite difficult. Actually I don't think any super 8 camera was designed to do that, but rather I think the odd camera has developed this 'feature'. I see miles of freshly shot super 8 and only see this effect rarely I am afraid.
If you pull a cartridge out of the camera (which you can do at any time) you expose 6 frames of film entirely. The adjoining frame at either end of these 6 frames might also get a little flashed, but only might. Quite often all that will happen is that the 6 frames will be perfectly flashed and nothing else effected at all. (note that if you open the film door of the camera the footage counter will be reset).
Film roll in/out clasically referes to the effect you see on roll film (eg 16mm, regular 8, double super 8) on daylight loading spools where the film has been loaded or unloaded in the camera not in total darkness. This was how you were ment to use daylight loading spools before super 16 (now kodak 100' rolls of 16mm say 'load in total darkness'). The roll in/out effect is usually a red coloured fading in/out of the image from/to clear film. Ordinerily after you load a roll of film on a daylight laoding spool into a camera you shut the door and film a certain amount to get beyond this flashed film. But super 8 of course, comming in a cartridge, doesn't experience this roll in/out effect at all. So if what you are describing is film roll in/out then its not a super 8 'feature'.
A way to generate a flash frame at the start of every take on super 8 would be to take a single exposure using the single frame feature of the camera. Set the apeture controll (using the manual control dial or whatever) a few stops more open (lower numbers) than the reading the camera gives on Auto. Having done that single exposure, now switch back to your filming speeed (18 or 24 fps) and readjust your exposure (back on auto if that is what you are doing) and film away. The first frame of the take will be a blown out or over exposed flash.
good luck with it.
richard
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#8 Adam Garner

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Posted 07 June 2009 - 11:40 AM

If I take a film roll out while its only half used, amI gonna get a total white spot on that frame? obviously... right? but will that slighlty bleed to the other frames... as in if I just open the door to the cam for a few seconds will it just bleed a bit in both directions ?


I always get about 3-6 frames exposed. There's really no bleed into the other frames after that. The cartridge is light-proof. You may get a 1/2 frame that's blown out. That can be pretty cool too, but doesn't always happen.

You will always get the roll-in roll-out light show. It's different than the 16mm type from day-light loading, but similar.
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