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metering for Vision3 500T


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#1 Johnny Gorry

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Posted 18 June 2009 - 02:09 PM

Is there any special metering that should be done with Vision3 500T?

How do automatic exposure cameras read this film? Can one use their auto exposure with this film or should one use an external light meter?

I've heard from some people that you need a special filter for 500T on certain cameras?

Thanks for you help
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#2 Johnny Gorry

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Posted 23 June 2009 - 11:17 AM

Hmmm...to quote Ben Stein as the high school teacher in Ferris Beuler's Day Off, "Anyone...anyone? Anyone................anyone?
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#3 Max Smith

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Posted 23 June 2009 - 09:03 PM

It depends on your camera - read through:
http://super8wiki.co...dge_Notch_Ruler
And see what your camera understands.

It seems likely that it would either be:
A) Totally wrong - by treating it as 160ASA or worse.
B) Or at best slightly wrong - by treating it as 640ASA.

Either way I would use an external meter, as a 25+ year old spot meter in the camera will likely give bad readings.
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#4 Johnny Gorry

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Posted 24 June 2009 - 07:54 AM

Either way I would use an external meter, as a 25+ year old spot meter in the camera will likely give bad readings.


OK, I have a Sekonic Studio III that is capable for motion picture light metering.

So, what would you say, add 1 stop for light loss through the lens? It's quite a large lens.

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#5 Max Smith

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Posted 24 June 2009 - 08:54 AM

So, what would you say, add 1 stop for light loss through the lens? It's quite a large lens.


I wouldn't say that much - difference will be less than half a stop unless we are talking about something really old. I would try to slightly over-expose (aim for a third of a stop). Three things to think about:

1) What frame rate ?
18fps or 24 fps ? don't forget to change the meter setting to compensate.

2) What's the shutter angle set to ? (150 ? 180 ? 220 ?)
Again - don't forget to set the meter...

3) Setting the 85 filter if you are shooting in daylight...
http://motion.kodak....0T/tech5219.htm
Kodak says ASA320 after setting the 85 filter on.

Let me know how you get on - I just got some Vision 3 that's waiting for a nice sunny day to test on.
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#6 Johnny Gorry

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Posted 24 June 2009 - 09:16 AM

Hey Max, Thanks for all of your help. It is very much appreciated. I am still learning so forgive my ignorance. Thank you for your patience and desire to help, though.


1) What frame rate ?
18fps or 24 fps ? don't forget to change the meter setting to compensate.


On my light meter, I don't think you change anything for the frame rate, you just check the aperture scale that corresponds to the frame rate you are using.

2) What's the shutter angle set to ? (150 ? 180 ? 220 ?)
Again - don't forget to set the meter...


I don't know the shutter angle and there is no way that I can find out. I cannot get a manual for this camera in time and there is no information about this camera on the web (at least not about its shutter angle).


Let me know how you get on - I just got some Vision 3 that's waiting for a nice sunny day to test on.


All of the 500T I have will be shot indoors and mostly under artificial light. I have some 200T for daylight outdoor shots. I have read that cameras meter for vision2 200T fine.
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#7 Johnny Gorry

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Posted 24 June 2009 - 10:58 AM

I just read that Kodak advises overexposing Vision3 500T film 1 full stop.

So I shoot probably shoot for 1 and 1/3 stops overexposure when shooting- (1/3 accounting for the lens).

Since I am going to be shooting the 500T indoors with low light and night footage, I should probably just open the lens all the way up for these shots??
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#8 Johnny Gorry

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Posted 24 June 2009 - 11:21 AM

Ok...I found some information online and from the manual sent to me from Don (from the forum). Thanks Don!!

The camera has a shutter angle of 180 degrees.

These are the exposure times listed for the camera printed in the manual:

1/14 sec @ 9 fps
1/28 sec @ 18 fps
1/38 sec @ 24 fps
1/84 sec @ 54 fps

The manual for my light meter (Sekonic Studio Deluxe III L-398A) only makes one small mention of shutter angles in regards to cine metering. It states:

"Note: Some cine cameras posses faster exposure times due to a narrower rotating shutter angle (angle of light transmitting portion). It is important to know the accurate shutter angle value versus cine speed for your camera in order to determine the proper exposure."

That is all that it says about shutter angles and there is no information about how to incorporate this information in to the metering of this device.
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#9 Max Smith

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Posted 24 June 2009 - 06:20 PM

Those shutter times looks more like 220 or 230 degrees shutter angle.

i.e.
1 / framerate / 360 * shutter angle = shutter time

Could those be still image shutter times ? It may use a different shutter angle for movie mode.

If in doubt about the shutter angle - my recommendation is to use the meter in photo mode.

1) Set shutter speed to 1/38 second (i.e. assuming you shoot 24 fps)
2) ISO to 500 ASA (depending on the lighting / filters you are using)
3) exposure compensation to +1 1/3 stop
4) And see what f/stop you get - and set that in the camera.

If you are shooting in night/indoors - I would forget the +1 f/stop recommended by Kodak - you are going to have trouble getting enough light on the film - i.e. you are effectively rating the film at 250 ASA. If you start doing that - but then halfway through run into a situation where you need to abandon it because there isn't enough light then you are going to have an inconsistent negative density - fine if you are going to correct it digitally - but a simple negative->telecine transfer may not correct for it. Basically everyone's face and everything else will suddenly get a stop darker.

But then - you could incorporate that into the look - shoot 1 1/3 stops over exposed indoors - then shoot 0 or even up to -1 in the night scenes.

You could pick an f/stop that isn't completely wide open - say f/2 or f/2.8 and try to stick to it using ND filters where you need to. Wide open may be a bit soft - and hard to maintain focus, although again - that might be a desirable look. Otherwise just let the f/stop float according to what the light meter says.

I hope that's helpful...
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