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#1 Blith Clockwalk

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Posted 20 June 2009 - 05:49 PM

Hi
Does anyone here know where you can get pan glass for a good price? I checked on ebay and nothing there. Second hand would be good...
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#2 Ron Sharp

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Posted 22 June 2009 - 01:23 AM

Hi
Does anyone here know where you can get pan glass for a good price? I checked on ebay and nothing there. Second hand would be good...



please forgive me for asking, What is pan glass?
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#3 Ron Sharp

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Posted 22 June 2009 - 01:33 AM

please forgive me for asking, What is pan glass?



Hey are you speaking of Panchromatic Viewing Filter?
if this is what you looking for Filmtools has a good selection.

http://www.filmtools...f1panviewf.html
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#4 Brian Pritchard

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Posted 22 June 2009 - 02:11 AM

please forgive me for asking, What is pan glass?

It is a dark green filter that you view your scene through when shooting in Black and White. It enables you to judge the effect of the scene brightnesses without the distraction of colour. It effectively renders the scene as it would appear on panchromatic black and white film.
In the days of black and white (when I was young) Kodak sold or quite often gave away, if you were sufficiently important, pan glasses.
Brian
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#5 Karel Bata

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Posted 22 June 2009 - 06:46 AM

I've got one for use with color film. It's basically a glass ND9. You can also get filters for high-speed film, or for use in blue or green screen (I can remember the days when a chap from Technicolor would turn up with one to advise on whether our blue screen was properly lit!).

The holder is threaded thus allowing the option of using different filters. The name derives from when film stock went over from orthochromatic to panchromatic and many DPs who were used to ortho appreciated a filter that helped them to pre-visulaise in panchro.

It can be handy for quickly judging the relative brightnesses of two areas in a shot that are not adjacent, but it's most common use is for looking up at clouds to predict their movement without getting blinded! :D For that it's invaluable.
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#6 David Rakoczy

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Posted 22 June 2009 - 06:56 AM

mmmm.. you guys are a bit confused....

What you all are describing is a Contrast Glass (with optional densities) to view the overall contrast of a given lighting set up.... a Pan Glass is very very dense (like a welders glass)... it is used for looking directly into a lamp... even a 20k or arc lamp (at 10 plus ft away) and adjusting the aiming of that lamp by looking directly at the element and reflector. Hence the name 'Pan' Glass. You won't be able to check contrast with a Pan Glass as it is much too dense.. You can look directly at the sun through it and only see the sun. When looking through it at a lamp all you will see is the element and reflector and you want to line those two up. A Pan Glass is also called a Gaffer's Glass. The top one at this link is a true Pan Glass.

Gaffer's Glass

I carry both a Pan Glass (Gaffer's Glass) and Contrast Glass (with interchangeable densities). Each serves a different function.
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#7 Karel Bata

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Posted 22 June 2009 - 07:37 AM

A pan glass for Black and White: http://www.taw.eu.co...products_id=418

and for color over 100 ASA: http://www.taw.eu.co...products_id=420

:P

Edited by Karel Bata, 22 June 2009 - 07:40 AM.

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#8 David Rakoczy

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Posted 22 June 2009 - 07:45 AM

Here is an IPhone photo of a Contrast Glass (left) and a Pan Glass or Gaffer's Glass (right). Notice you can see through the Contrast Glass and the Pan Glass is black... the only thing you see in the Pan Glass is a reflection of my thumb... the Pan Glass is for looking directly into lamps for aiming.

photo.jpg

You want to stand where you want the light to be centered and then line up the element and reflector through the Pan Glass.

Guess all those years of Gaffing finally paid off :lol:

btw.. you could literally get a hold of a welder's helmet and remove the Glass.. you now have a Pan Glass .
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#9 David Rakoczy

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Posted 22 June 2009 - 07:58 AM

Karel.. no THEY are also confused :lol: :P ... Pan Glass is for PANNING LAMPS.... it doesn't matter 'what' the Stock is... B&W... Color.... 50d or 500t.... that is why it is called a 'PAN' Glass.... as opposed to a Contrast Glass (Filter)...

See John Alonzo's statement:

Contrast Glass

Mr. Alonzo is not talking about panning or tilting Lamps.... and a Pan Glass would do him no good in that case....
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#10 John Holland

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Posted 22 June 2009 - 07:59 AM

I have a Tiffen pan glass , not used it for years [ apart from a quick glimpse of a eclipse ] I never point lights at talent or objects , its all bounce or reflected !! , apart from a strong over top burnt out back light great !!!!
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#11 David Rakoczy

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Posted 22 June 2009 - 08:02 AM

I never point lights at talent or objects



hmmm.. that is all I seem to be doing when Lighting... even if I place a diffuser in between the Lamp and Subject... what you have John is a Contrast Glass.... btw... where have you been?

Correction... or you may indeed have a Pan Glass if you use it looking at the sun... my correction. ;)
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#12 Karel Bata

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Posted 22 June 2009 - 08:03 AM

The problem here David is that you Mr. Alonzo are Americans, and as such inclined to distort and ruin the English language. Enough harm has been done already. Let's see if we can stop this further bit of vocabular erosion in its tracks!

"The pan glass

This is not strictly a camera filter but the piece of glass, in a holder, often worn around the DoP’s neck. These days it is not a pan glass at all, but the origins are so strong that the name is now synonymous with that little bit of filter and the name seems impossible to kill off. This filter is often worn as a kind of chain of office on the set so everyone will know who the DoP is.

In the days when all films were made in black and white, it was quite hard to visualize a scene in front of the camera, which is of course in colour, as it might be seen on the screen in black and white. Early black and white film was orthochromatic (single colour), meaning it was incapable of recording black and white densities as a true representation of colour brightness. In fact, the film was sensitive mainly to blue light, which then required very peculiar make up: women’s faces being painted yellow and their lips black.

Black and white film stocks developed into what became known as panchromatic emulsions. These emulsions were much more true in their rendition of colour brightness, as they could record some red and green.

Cinematographers who were used to orthochromatic film emulsions had considerable difficulties in imagining the tones that would be recorded on the new emulsions. The solution was to produce a viewing filter that the DP could look through that would, to the eye, give a fair representation of the scene as it would be recorded on the new panchromatic film. Hence, the viewing filter became known as the panchromatic viewing filter – or a pan glass. As black and white technology progressed, various viewing filters were developed and matching pairs were sometimes available for working under daylight and tungsten light.

Nowadays the viewing filter should strictly be called colour viewing filters, for they all try and show you the scene in colour, with the tone scale modified to match the tonal scale of modern colour emulsions. The most common use of a pan glass is to look at the clouds in the sky to see if one can get a matching lighting state from the previous shot. Many DoPs still judge their lighting by them.

A good gaffer will do the sky watch for you. My gaffer has developed an uncanny ability to guess a clouds progress across the sky. He might use his pan glass or a gaffer’s viewing filter I found for him. This is incredibly dark and green, as this is the safest colour to look at the sun with, though he reluctantly admits that in the UK it’s a bit too dark – hence he’s always asking me when we are going to get that picture in California so that he can make proper use of the glass I gave him.

This article is extracted from Practical Cinematography (second edition) by Paul Wheeler, published by Focal Press, an imprint of Elsevier. ISBN: 0 240 5192 0"



I never point lights at talent

I agree with John - it's very impolite to point lights directly at people, hence I use a reflector. :blink:

Edited by Karel Bata, 22 June 2009 - 08:07 AM.

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#13 David Rakoczy

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Posted 22 June 2009 - 08:12 AM

To make it even more confusing see this

Pan Glass

Here they are referencing panchromatic Film.. so yes, the terms are varied from decade to decade as technology changes and region to region... but in 'Hollywood'... a 'Pan' glass (these days) is used for Panning and Tilting Lamps while a Contrast Glass is used for checking Contrast and watching clouds. My Contrast Glass is from Tiffen and on the edge it says (Contrast Viewing Filter).....
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#14 David Rakoczy

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Posted 22 June 2009 - 08:16 AM

Let's put it this way.. I carry both a Contrast Glass (for checking Contrast) and I carry a Pan Glass (for aiming Lamps)... does anyone else in the EU or anywhere else carry BOTH... and if so.. what do you call the one used for Panning (aiming lamps)?... we, here in 'Hollywood', use a silly term like 'Pan' Glass... as that is what it is used for :lol:
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#15 David Rakoczy

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Posted 22 June 2009 - 08:20 AM

btw... I usually don't aim lights at Talent... I have the set lit and then they walk in and do their thing :lol: .... and sometimes that involves raw hot undiffused light :P .... you bunch of softlite wussies!!!!! :lol: No wonder you don't know what a PAN Glass is!
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#16 Karel Bata

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Posted 22 June 2009 - 08:34 AM

From the above extract:

My gaffer has developed an uncanny ability to guess a clouds progress across the sky. He might use his pan glass or a gaffer’s viewing filter I found for him. This is incredibly dark and green, as this is the safest colour to look at the sun with, though he reluctantly admits that in the UK it’s a bit too dark – hence he’s always asking me when we are going to get that picture in California so that he can make proper use of the glass I gave him.

So there you have it: a pan glass (as the term is properly applied using Queen's English) here will also work for watching the skies. The American version is innappropriate, which is no surprise. I've no idea what the sparks here use for peering into the lenses of strong lights, though it strikes me as a foolhardy thing to do, I've never seen them do it, and I hope they have a bit more sense. I think if there's a problem they just send the whole thing back.

:D


So at the root of the problem we have 'Hollywood' English, and the one we've been using here for some time...
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#17 David Rakoczy

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Posted 22 June 2009 - 08:47 AM

Karel... give it up.. you are wrong :lol: ... what do you call the (Glass) I am holding on the right?... and what is it used for?.... how about the one on the left? Please explain... I certainly did. :rolleyes:... I'll take the Hollywood terms as the defining terms and the industry standard over the Queen's English any day, after all, what has she ever lit!? :P

Here's the second sentence of that large quote you posted:

These days it is not a pan glass at all, but the origins are so strong that the name is now synonymous with that little bit of filter and the name seems impossible to kill off.

This is the part you need to reread Karel ;)... we in Hollywood have moved on and use the term in an 'applicable' manner and have been for decades....

"We don't point lights at people... we don't advise looking into burning lamps"[/i]... sheeesh... how do you guys get any work done?! :lol:

One note... I hope you all are taking this in the fun it is meant... I really appreciate Karel's and the other's posts... I learn from them as well.. it is just in this case... well.. now you now know what a Pan Glass is... B)
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#18 David Rakoczy

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Posted 22 June 2009 - 10:48 AM

Here ya go... Pan Glass is also called Gaffers Glass.. just go to gaffersglass.com (who would have thought :lol: ) Gaffers Glass ..... different from Contrast Glass.

Quote "Because it is a lot darker, is NOT a color contrast viewing filter replacement."

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#19 Karel Bata

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Posted 22 June 2009 - 11:00 AM

Work..? :unsure: I'm too busy playing asteroids on my Number of Lights Needed Pocket Calculator! :D

So there we have it: the definitive answer to Rob's question is that it depends on what part of the world you happen to be in, but most folk would agree that a pan glass is the lid of a cooking utensil:

Posted Image


The big black thing in the middle is known as a 'handle' and serves a double purpose in that it will protect your eyes if you should be struck with the insane urge to look through it at the sun or any other bright lights.

Warning: wearing this around your neck suspended by a piece of string will NOT give you added DP credibility. Posted Image
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#20 David Rakoczy

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Posted 22 June 2009 - 11:05 AM

Karel... that is hilarious! :lol:
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