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Super 16 or Ultra 16 for home movies


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#1 John Adolfi

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Posted 23 June 2009 - 03:10 PM

From what Bernie just left on my VM an Eiki can be made into a Super16 projector. I'm assuming that a projector can be fitted for Ultra16mm. So the question is which format? I want to shoot home movies, cost is secondary... to a degree. Look and quality are a priority.
To shoot S16 or U16 and then project on a screen? That is the question.

Edited by John Adolfi, 23 June 2009 - 03:12 PM.

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#2 Will Montgomery

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Posted 23 June 2009 - 04:53 PM

Depends more on the camera. If you can easily do S16, then that would be a better format as telecine houses are generally more ok with S16. If your camera can only easily be U16 (Scoopic for example) then go U16.
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#3 Chris Keth

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Posted 23 June 2009 - 06:36 PM

You say cost is secondary, but do you realize how expensive it really is?

Do you own a camera?

Color negative can be had for as little as 10 cents per foot if you're getting expired short ends.

400' is $40.

Processing will be around .13 per foot- $52.

Workprinting (best light) will be around .32 per foot- $128

That is $20 per minute, and that is assuming you get the cheapest of the cheap stock. That cost doesn't allow you much rolling time to capture anything that is unplanned or spontaneous.
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#4 John Adolfi

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Posted 27 June 2009 - 07:38 AM

I plan on shooting reversal.
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#5 Adam Garner

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Posted 30 June 2009 - 03:07 PM

Ultra is the more economical route, really. Cameras are cheaper (like the scoopic), and the mod is only about 4-500 bucks.

I would think that the projector would be easier to modify to ultra. With super you have to recenter lenses. I can't imagine that a projector lens could be recentered for cheap.

Keep in mind that if you go super, you have to buy super16 lenses, which cost several thousand dollars. That's to make sure it covers the S16 frame. Ultra works with regular 16 lenses.
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#6 Simon Wyss

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Posted 30 June 2009 - 03:27 PM

So the question is which format?

Do you have anything against the standard 3/4 format?
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#7 Rob Vogt

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Posted 30 June 2009 - 04:07 PM

Since cost is secondary why not just shoot on an F35... That'll save you all your money on stock and it will give you some pretty high quality for a home movie. But really when I think home movie I think video or 8mm... Obviously Reg 16 and U16 are cheaper, but you limit your post options because even if you don't plan on digitally transferring U16 because you need to have a lab that uses a non sprocket-driven processing unlike a Treise which is used by many of the larger labs. see this thread http://www.cinematog...showtopic=34904
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#8 Patrick Neary

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Posted 30 June 2009 - 10:06 PM

so what's wrong with regular 16?
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#9 John Adolfi

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Posted 19 July 2009 - 02:09 PM

Well Bernie told me that Ultra 16 is the wisest choice because of the cost and not having to re-center the lens AND Ultra is 90% of what S16 is.
My recently purchased Scoopic M is being shipped to Bernie as we speak.
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#10 John Adolfi

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Posted 19 July 2009 - 02:09 PM

Well Bernie told me that Ultra 16 is the wisest choice because of the cost and not having to re-center the lens AND Ultra is 90% of what S16 is.
My recently purchased Scoopic M is being shipped to Bernie as we speak.
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#11 Will Montgomery

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Posted 20 July 2009 - 02:38 PM

Let us know how it goes with the conversion. Had nothing but excellent results with Bernie's work. Try out Cinelicious for the telecine too, they do great work at reasonable prices and are championing U16 now.
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#12 Paul Korver

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Posted 20 July 2009 - 02:57 PM

Hi John,
I'm assuming the goal would not be telecine at all but just home projection (since you mentioned your shooting reversal) ? I don't know if there are any home 16mm projectors that have been modded to Ultra 16mm but my concern would be that multiple runs through a sprocket driven projector might scratch the area between the perfs which is exposed in the Ultra 16mm frame.

-Paul
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#13 John Adolfi

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Posted 20 July 2009 - 03:05 PM

Hi John,
I'm assuming the goal would not be telecine at all but just home projection (since you mentioned your shooting reversal) ? I don't know if there are any home 16mm projectors that have been modded to Ultra 16mm but my concern would be that multiple runs through a sprocket driven projector might scratch the area between the perfs which is exposed in the Ultra 16mm frame.

-Paul


The solution, if that is the case, is to show in R16 and transfer in U16?
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#14 Paul Korver

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Posted 22 July 2009 - 08:51 PM

The solution, if that is the case, is to show in R16 and transfer in U16?

The solution... if you ever intend on transferring it would be to telecine or scan it PRIOR to running it through a projector. Our Ultra 16mm modified telecine won't scratch between the perfs... but no guarantees on your projector.
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#15 Patrick Cooper

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Posted 03 August 2009 - 06:27 AM

Once at a camera market, I saw a 16mm projector with the words "Super 16." Don't know whether this really was a Super 16mm projector or just a fancy brand name to grab attention.

And as for shooting home movies on 16mm, well they did it back in the 1930s so what you're doing could be seen as a very retro cool thing!
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#16 John Adolfi

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 06:07 PM

Once at a camera market, I saw a 16mm projector with the words "Super 16." Don't know whether this really was a Super 16mm projector or just a fancy brand name to grab attention.

And as for shooting home movies on 16mm, well they did it back in the 1930s so what you're doing could be seen as a very retro cool thing!


In 198? when I saw the documentary Imagine I remember seeing the beatles footage in 16mm or 35mm sort of like "home movies" of them getting off the plane at the airport in color. Then as I thought now, "Wow" wouldn't it be great to film home movies in 16mm or 35mm? The look is just so fantastic. My father shot our Christmas's from 1964-70 on a Arriflex BL he borrowed from work he shot a a cameraman. Talk about the incredible look and capture of those magical moments in my life. I'm in process of cleaning and re-reeling them. How to have some digital clips by Fall.
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#17 Charles MacDonald

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 07:34 PM

Once at a camera market, I saw a 16mm projector with the words "Super 16."

The super 16 format where the image extends into the sound area was never a projection format, so it is likely that the projector that you saw was not intended for what is now called Super16
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