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Printing 16mm reversal


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#1 Katherine Enos

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Posted 08 July 2009 - 01:36 PM

Are there any other options to print 16mm reversal to a 16mm film stock besides using an internegative? Sounds like since the reversal print stock was discontinued reversal is usually just transferred to video. I realize that use of an internegative will change the appearance of the print but want to stick with film.

Thanks.
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#2 Richard Tuohy

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Posted 08 July 2009 - 07:44 PM

Are there any other options to print 16mm reversal to a 16mm film stock besides using an internegative? Sounds like since the reversal print stock was discontinued reversal is usually just transferred to video. I realize that use of an internegative will change the appearance of the print but want to stick with film.

Thanks.

I think using a colour interneg for colour reversal is the only available workflow now since the end of 7309 reversal print film ... except getting a di made and then a print - but that would be even more expensive.
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#3 Dirk DeJonghe

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Posted 09 July 2009 - 12:07 AM

The current internegative stock, 7272 is really designed to work with low contrast originals such as 7252 ECO. This combination gives a nice contrast.
If you use a projection-contrast original you will have better results with camera negative pulled one stop to reduce contrast. Both 7201 and 7212 work fine.
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#4 Katherine Enos

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Posted 10 July 2009 - 12:53 PM

Thanks for this information and for these tips. They'll be invaluable.

I also sent a query to the Black and White Film Factory since they provide some less common services (http://www.blackandw...filmfactory.com) and in addition to an interneg they offered direct printing on an alternate stock for an A wind in which the frames are flipped horizontally. I thought it might not be intuitive to edit the film that way but maybe, if you're intercutting only workprint printed in the same fashion (all A wind) you'd still get the movement you might want from cut to cut and you'd only have to visually flip the frame from cut to cut when you were splicing in film that was workprinted using the normal process. Anyway, that's what it seems like to me.

Katherine
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#5 Simon Wyss

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Posted 11 July 2009 - 03:26 AM

After the discontinuation of Eastman 7360 we chose Kodak 2468, a microfilm direct reversal duplicating stock. For best results we offered internegatives on Gigabitfilm 40. Still another possibility is the use of Orwo LF 2 with a reversal treatment. You see, in the black-and-white field chances are real if not reel.
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#6 K Borowski

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Posted 11 July 2009 - 10:28 AM

Katherine: The B&W Film Factory prints to color? Also, why are you making a workprint when you have a reversal original? That process is prohibitively expensive. Your money would be better served buying more camera stock, making a better print with a better colorist, and saving as much money as you can (video/digital editing) in the interim. Just my opinion, but it is one that is almost universally shared.

The results you get from editing with workprints are absolutely identical to what you could do with NLE. Unless someone else is footing the bill, specifically requesting flatbed editing, you are wasting money.


Simon: She's talking about color printing, not B&W. Although, I guess if you get a workprint, B&W is (was?) less expensive than color print stock. Not sure if that is still the case.

But again, color video editing is a far better choice than B&W workprints unless you are making a B&W final product.

There is very little reason to use color workprinting in the 21st century with HD NLE of as-good-as resolution. There is no reason whatsoever to use B&W workprints for a color product unless you want to, often at the expense of your final product, go on a nostalgia trip.

Workprinting doesn't make you a hero and it doesn't get you a higher rung on the ladder to heaven, sorry. It's something done behind the scenes that the people you should be worrying about, YOUR AUDIENCE, couldn't care less about and, indeed, would probably be bored by.
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#7 Jim Carlile

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Posted 13 July 2009 - 11:32 PM

How does 2468 work out? It seems like an interesting alternative for a reversal print film, but how is it perfed? And cost?
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#8 Simon Wyss

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 05:40 AM

Karl: Katherine hasn't mentioned color with any word, and if she did I'd have noticed. I might be a fool but I'm not plain stupid.

Jim: There is this by comparison little business of Filmotec, Germany. They offer perforation of alien stock. We have had 2468 unperforated and went about with absolutely satisfying results. In fact, the more modern film develops over two, three minutes while -360 takes around a quarter hour for enough contrast.

Anybody can purchase Kodak 2468, send it to Wolfen and use it as replacement for Eastman 7360. In fact, they are similar products but EKC wouldn't bother to even think of new uses of their output. What the film is going on in the U. S. ?

http://www.filmotec....tionierung.html
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