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Will Cooke Speed Panchros cover Full Aperture


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#1 Tim Carroll

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Posted 02 August 2009 - 09:34 AM

Does anyone have experience to know if the original Cooke Speed Panchro lenses (the Series II and Series III ones, not the new ones Cooke is coming out with) will cover the Super 35/Full Aperture/Silent Aperture frame.

I know they cover Academy no problem. But will they cover the larger full frame as well, or do you get vignetting on the corners.

Best,
-Tim
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#2 Stephen Williams

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Posted 02 August 2009 - 10:41 AM

Does anyone have experience to know if the original Cooke Speed Panchro lenses (the Series II and Series III ones, not the new ones Cooke is coming out with) will cover the Super 35/Full Aperture/Silent Aperture frame.

I know they cover Academy no problem. But will they cover the larger full frame as well, or do you get vignetting on the corners.

Best,
-Tim


Hi Tim,

Assuming a 1: 1.185 crop no problem.

Stephen
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#3 Tim Carroll

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Posted 02 August 2009 - 11:35 AM

Stephen,

Thanks for the reply.

Wasn't really making that assumption about the 1.85.

Do you know if the lenses will cover the full aperture or will you get "black fuzzy corners" when using the old Cookes?

Best,
-Tim
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#4 Hal Smith

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Posted 02 August 2009 - 09:28 PM

Stephen,

Thanks for the reply.

Wasn't really making that assumption about the 1.85.

Do you know if the lenses will cover the full aperture or will you get "black fuzzy corners" when using the old Cookes?

Best,
-Tim


I've never heard of any problem with Cooke SPII/III's of any focal length vignetting an Academy frame.

Try drawing a dimensionally accurate but scaled up Academy aperture on a sheet of paper. Next draw a circle large enough to just touch the corners of that aperture. Then inscribe the largest possible aperture window in the aspect ratio you're concerned about inside that circle, also touching the circle at its corners. Finish by measuring in scale the aperture you created and seeing if it's at least as large as the aperture of the Super-35 aspect ratio you've got in mind. Panavision Oz's website has the best aspect ratio and format data I've found online.

If you've got Autocad or another drafting program that can create dimensioned drawings the above would be a simple job. Create the aperture as a dimensioned rectangle, use drawing palette tools to draw a perfect circle that touches the rectangle's four corners, separately draw the Super-35 aperture as a dimensioned rectangle, then move that rectangle over to the Academy aperture and circle and see if you can fit it inside the circle.
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#5 Tim Carroll

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Posted 03 August 2009 - 07:23 AM

Hal,

Thanks for the info. What I am trying to ask (obviously not too successfully) is whether the Cookes, Ser II and III, will cover the Full Aperture or what was originally referred to as the Silent Aperture. Not 3-perf Super 35, but the actual Full, Silent Aperture, which is taller and wider than Academy. Since Silent Aperture has been around since the Silent Film days, I was just wondering if the Cooke Panchros, which were made in the 1940's, 1950's and early 1960's, were designed to cover that Silent Aperture, or if they would vignette?

Best,
-Tim
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#6 Hal Smith

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Posted 03 August 2009 - 08:42 AM

Hal,

Thanks for the info. What I am trying to ask (obviously not too successfully) is whether the Cookes, Ser II and III, will cover the Full Aperture or what was originally referred to as the Silent Aperture. Not 3-perf Super 35, but the actual Full, Silent Aperture, which is taller and wider than Academy. Since Silent Aperture has been around since the Silent Film days, I was just wondering if the Cooke Panchros, which were made in the 1940's, 1950's and early 1960's, were designed to cover that Silent Aperture, or if they would vignette?

Best,
-Tim


Aha! That's a much more arcane question. I've had good luck in the past emailing Cooke Optics support in England and getting knowledgeable answers from them. Ask about silent aperture but also see if they've got image circle information on hand for their older lenses...then please post it here and we'll all know what coverage the SPII/III's are capable of from first principles.

http://www.cookeopti...es/contact.html
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#7 Tim Carroll

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Posted 03 August 2009 - 10:13 AM

Thanks Hal,

Sent them an email, let's see what they say.

Best,
-Tim
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#8 Leo Anthony Vale

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Posted 03 August 2009 - 04:07 PM

Thanks for the info. What I am trying to ask (obviously not too successfully) is whether the Cookes, Ser II and III, will cover the Full Aperture or what was originally referred to as the Silent Aperture.


At home I have Xeroxes of 50s ads from the SMPTE Journal for the Series II Speed Panchros.

The ads specically state the Series II cover a 31mm diagonal, which is the full aperture.

Incidentally, the "history" sections on the Cooke sight are full of errors about dates.
I attribute this to a writer being given a bunch of brochures, clippings and papers about a subject which he is unfamiliar with.

Here's an exerpt from an unfinished eMail intended to be sent to Cooke, but never got finished:

"Your history section states that the SP SeriesII came out in the early 40s:

1940s
Bell & Howell

1940s
The Series II Cooke Speed Panchros for cinematography were distributed exclusively through Bell & Howell in London and Chicago. The Series II lenses were developed for higher definition in wide screen presentations and to cover standard format 0.723 x 0.980 inches. By 1945 they came in focal lengths: 18, 25, 32, 40, 50 and 75mm. The 100mm, f/2.5 Deep Field Panchro was released in 1946

Yet outside sources such as the SMPTE Journals state that The Series II Speed Panchros and the Kinetals were introduced in 1958.
The SMPTE Journal had papers describing these lenses.

Certainly the "Series One" were Filmo-coated in the early 40s and going
by lens lists in ASC Handbooks the uncoated 24mm was replaced with a coated 25mm.
There were no 18mm cine lens for 35mm cine in the 40s."

Stating that the Series II lenses were developed for higher definition in wide screen presentations is a dead give away that these were lenses from the mid-fifties.

Since most of the Series "One" came out in the 20s They would cover the Silent Aperture, Though the corners might be soft.
I might wonder a bit about the Filmo-coated 25mm from thr 40s.
E.Tisse bought a new set of Cookes from B&H for his Parvo, when he and Eisenstein left Hollywood for Mexico.
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#9 Tim Carroll

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Posted 05 August 2009 - 01:52 PM

Aha! That's a much more arcane question. I've had good luck in the past emailing Cooke Optics support in England and getting knowledgeable answers from them. Ask about silent aperture but also see if they've got image circle information on hand for their older lenses...then please post it here and we'll all know what coverage the SPII/III's are capable of from first principles.


Okay, just heard back from Les Zellan of Cooke (ZGC). As per the Cooke Speed Panchro Series II brochure he emailed me:
"The new Series II range is specifically designed to cover the standard Motion Picture Silent Format 0.723 in. x 0'980 in. (18'37 mm. x 24'89 mm.)"

He is checking to make sure the 18mm and 25mm Series III cover the same area, I'm hoping so.

Best,
-Tim
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Broadcast Solutions Inc

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Willys Widgets

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

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Glidecam

Paralinx LLC

Ritter Battery

CineTape

Abel Cine

Tai Audio

Technodolly

Rig Wheels Passport

Visual Products

The Slider

Opal