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RED footage to HD tape - compression?


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#1 catherine lutes

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Posted 11 August 2009 - 06:31 PM

Hey all

I have been working on a short film shot on RED and I left the transfer of the final colour corrected version with the post house and the director. i then received a call from the director saying that while he was watching the HDSR transferred master there was some noisy-ness and movement in some of the dark areas that was not there on the HD monitor we were doing the correction on.

The film is going to be screening at film festivals shortly and I would love it to look the same way it does in that colour correct suite.

I did not get a chance to see the HDSR master but it was made from a 4:2:2 version of the footage, so they have gone back and done one from 4:4:4 but the director says it is still there, but not nearly as bad. He says that there are a couple of fades from black that are quite noisy.

what is happening here? and how do I get it to look like it does in the suite? Its going to be screened on big screens and I cant stand the thought of compression, or buzzing images. We need to deliver on HDCam, digibeta and hd as well as sd for broadcast.

any thoughts or insight would be appreciated

catherine lutes

http://www.catherinelutes.com/2009.mov
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#2 Michael Most

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Posted 11 August 2009 - 06:52 PM

I have been working on a short film shot on RED and I left the transfer of the final colour corrected version with the post house and the director. i then received a call from the director saying that while he was watching the HDSR transferred master there was some noisy-ness and movement in some of the dark areas that was not there on the HD monitor we were doing the correction on.

The film is going to be screening at film festivals shortly and I would love it to look the same way it does in that colour correct suite.

I did not get a chance to see the HDSR master but it was made from a 4:2:2 version of the footage, so they have gone back and done one from 4:4:4 but the director says it is still there, but not nearly as bad. He says that there are a couple of fades from black that are quite noisy.

what is happening here? and how do I get it to look like it does in the suite? Its going to be screened on big screens and I cant stand the thought of compression, or buzzing images. We need to deliver on HDCam, digibeta and hd as well as sd for broadcast.


If the monitor in the color suite was a CRT monitor (if this was done in a major post facility, that's entirely possible) and now he's looking at it on an LCD or plasma, that's all the explanation you need. CRT's tend to hide things like low level noise and grain. LCD's and plasmas - particularly LCD's - tend to emphasize it. This comes as a shock the first time one encounters it, but it's absolutely the case, which is one reason why a lot of those same facilities are now using plasmas as their color correction monitors (not the only reason, nor the most important, but a reason none the less). This would be noticeable on things like fades.

Making a tape from 422 vs. 444 is not going to mask or emphasize noise. In fact, the difference between the two is usually undetectable by most human eyes on most monitors. If he thinks it's "better," it could easily be his imagination.
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#3 John Sprung

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Posted 11 August 2009 - 07:57 PM

CRT's tend to hide things like low level noise and grain. LCD's and plasmas - particularly LCD's - tend to emphasize it. This comes as a shock the first time one encounters it, but it's absolutely the case, which is one reason why a lot of those same facilities are now using plasmas as their color correction monitors


If LCD's are the most critical, aren't they what we should look at, or at least check with, kinda like the little speakers on the dub stage? Did anything become of those Sony BVM-L230 LCD's? My problem with them was that they were pretty much a single user display. Two people looking at the same screen from different angles would see different colors. What do you think of DLP front projection as a color timing environment?

(BTW, this thread should be in Cameras and Formats\HD\Red.)




-- J.S.
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#4 catherine lutes

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Posted 11 August 2009 - 09:40 PM

ahhh - sorry didnt realize i posted it in the film stocks forum - my screw up. I dont post too often and have no idea how to switch it over - thanks for your responses anyway!

The monitor was not a CRT monitor, but you are right in that the director was watching it on a small lcd screen when he viewed the tape.

I guess my biggest question is how do I know whether it will be like that when projected in a cinema or not?
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