Jump to content


Photo

Drumline


  • Please log in to reply
10 replies to this topic

#1 Peter Moretti

Peter Moretti
  • Sustaining Members
  • 306 posts
  • Other
  • Sherman Oaks, CA

Posted 15 August 2009 - 05:16 AM

I just finished watching Drumline. Formulaic? Yes, but I really liked it. The scene between Nick Cannon and his father who's working as a token collector was exceptionally moving. But this film is about sound and movement.

Hence my ?. There are some great shots of the drummers where the movement is very staccato. The drumsticks look tack sharp and seem to disappear and reappear.

I'm guessing this was done by shooting with a faster than normal sutter speed, perhaps a 90 shutter angle? But IDK.

If anyone would care to speculate, that would be great. Thanks much.
  • 0

#2 John Young

John Young
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 181 posts
  • Other
  • Lexington, KY

Posted 15 August 2009 - 06:09 PM

I havent seen that film in a long time. If you can give me a reference to where in the movie that occurs, I may be able to help.

I marched for almost 12 years in various drumlines, so I can explain how the physics of playing work. And I can explain a bit about what is actually going
on when you watch someone play.

Just let me know.
  • 0

#3 Peter Moretti

Peter Moretti
  • Sustaining Members
  • 306 posts
  • Other
  • Sherman Oaks, CA

Posted 17 August 2009 - 03:19 AM

Hi John,

That is one impressive talent that you have!

The movement I described above occurs during many of the closeups of the snare drum playing (but not all). It also happens during a few of the marching sequences. I believe it was created by an effect added in post or a some change in shutter speed or frame rate during filming.

Thanks much for shedding any light on this.
  • 0

#4 Tom Jensen

Tom Jensen
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1234 posts
  • Camera Operator
  • Dallas, TX

Posted 17 August 2009 - 07:17 AM

Hi John,

That is one impressive talent that you have!

The movement I described above occurs during many of the closeups of the snare drum playing (but not all). It also happens during a few of the marching sequences. I believe it was created by an effect added in post or a some change in shutter speed or frame rate during filming.

Thanks much for shedding any light on this.


I haven't seen it but it sounds like it was shot at a slower frame rate and printed back at the same rate.

Edited by Tom Jensen, 17 August 2009 - 07:17 AM.

  • 0

#5 John Young

John Young
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 181 posts
  • Other
  • Lexington, KY

Posted 17 August 2009 - 06:38 PM

I haven't seen it but it sounds like it was shot at a slower frame rate and printed back at the same rate.





Give that a watch and see if anything in it has the same effect.

I still haven't had time to look at the film again. And youtube isn't helping any.
I think what your talking about is the open rolls or diddles...
To a blind person, it should just look like you are playing RLRLRLRLRLRL
when you could be playing: RRLLRRLLRRLLRRLL or RLRRLRLLRLRRLRLLRLRR or whatever.

Remember, the typical impact speed of 38.8 mph results in a 17.6 mph rebound speed for a wood drumstick.
A camera at 24fps could report anything visually when this math is applied. After all. Each drummer, while
trying to match exactly the next, is constantly adjusting the speed of the stick.

Hope that helps.

P.S. To get a taste of what is actually happening when a snare drummer plays, here is a short excerpt:
Posted Image
  • 0

#6 Adrian Sierkowski

Adrian Sierkowski
  • Sustaining Members
  • 7116 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles, Ca

Posted 18 August 2009 - 03:08 AM

From what I can recall of the trailer (long time ago) I'd go with a shutter angle change over anything done in post as you'd have motion blur on the footage to content with if trying to do it in the VFX suite as opposed to just upping the light level a bit on the day.
  • 0

#7 Peter Moretti

Peter Moretti
  • Sustaining Members
  • 306 posts
  • Other
  • Sherman Oaks, CA

Posted 19 August 2009 - 01:35 AM



Give that a watch and see if anything in it has the same effect.

I still haven't had time to look at the film again. And youtube isn't helping any.
I think what your talking about is the open rolls or diddles...
To a blind person, it should just look like you are playing RLRLRLRLRLRL
when you could be playing: RRLLRRLLRRLLRRLL or RLRRLRLLRLRRLRLLRLRR or whatever.

Remember, the typical impact speed of 38.8 mph results in a 17.6 mph rebound speed for a wood drumstick.
A camera at 24fps could report anything visually when this math is applied. After all. Each drummer, while
trying to match exactly the next, is constantly adjusting the speed of the stick.

Hope that helps.

P.S. To get a taste of what is actually happening when a snare drummer plays, here is a short excerpt:
Posted Image


John, thanks for the link. I have to say it looks very impressive... and nothing like the effect I saw in Drumline. In the Youtube video, the sticks blur, while in Drumline, the have a stop motion type of effect. This also appears with some of the marching sequences.

BTW, I think Adrian is probably correct, that it was done during shooting and not in post b/c it would be very difficult to un-blur motion.
  • 0

#8 Richard Vialet

Richard Vialet
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 133 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Hollywood, CA

Posted 19 August 2009 - 12:07 PM

I also love that movie too...(many dont agree with me maybe its a guilty pleasure :)

but from what I remember I've always thought it was simply the use of a very narrow shutter angle...with seems like the best course of action to shoot drumsticks at full movement. Because at a regular 180ยบ shutter the movement would be too blurry to be really effective for the viewer.
  • 0

#9 Tom Jensen

Tom Jensen
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1234 posts
  • Camera Operator
  • Dallas, TX

Posted 19 August 2009 - 09:47 PM

From what I can recall of the trailer (long time ago) I'd go with a shutter angle change over anything done in post as you'd have motion blur on the footage to content with if trying to do it in the VFX suite as opposed to just upping the light level a bit on the day.


I haven't seen it but you may very well be correct.
  • 0

#10 Adrian Sierkowski

Adrian Sierkowski
  • Sustaining Members
  • 7116 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles, Ca

Posted 19 August 2009 - 09:55 PM



for those interested.
  • 0

#11 Peter Moretti

Peter Moretti
  • Sustaining Members
  • 306 posts
  • Other
  • Sherman Oaks, CA

Posted 20 August 2009 - 09:28 AM

Thanks. The effect isn't used all the time. but you can catch just a glimplse of it at 1:03 when the band member is punched.

You can also see it starting around 2:30 on the YouTube clip just below it called "Drumline - Final Part." Notice how the drum sticks become very sharp, unlike earlier in the sequence.
  • 0


rebotnix Technologies

Tai Audio

Glidecam

Willys Widgets

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

CineLab

Technodolly

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

FJS International, LLC

Paralinx LLC

Rig Wheels Passport

Visual Products

Metropolis Post

CineTape

The Slider

Aerial Filmworks

Abel Cine

Ritter Battery

Opal

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Wooden Camera

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Opal

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Ritter Battery

CineTape

Aerial Filmworks

Visual Products

rebotnix Technologies

Metropolis Post

Abel Cine

Rig Wheels Passport

FJS International, LLC

CineLab

Tai Audio

Technodolly

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Willys Widgets

Wooden Camera

Paralinx LLC

The Slider

Glidecam