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Testing Motion Picture Stocks with an SLR


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#1 Ari Davidson

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 03:43 PM

I'm looking to shoot some short ends spooled into 35mm cassettes with my old slr's. Really the only problem I'm having with this workflow is I just cannot seem to locate a lab that will process such short strips, or they do not use the ECN-2 process (still labs). I've also looked into developing myself, though I haven't found a retailer for the ECN-2 kit, and doubt that it is within a film student's budget. Does anyone out there have ANY suggestions as to how one should go about developing such images?
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#2 Charles MacDonald

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 08:19 PM

I'm looking to shoot some short ends spooled into 35mm cassettes with my old slr's. Really the only problem I'm having with this workflow is I just cannot seem to locate a lab that will process such short strips,

Tis a hard thing to find.

The still camera lengths are about what a movie lab might use to splice with, so trying to run them is hard for the labs. The movie processing machines tend to run much faster than the C-41 (still camera) machines. and the C-41 machines know nothing of the messy black REM-Jet on Movie stock.

you may find some useful info on the following threads:

http://www.cinematog...showtopic=30258
http://www.cinematog...showtopic=32292
http://www.cinematog...showtopic=35133
http://www.cinematog...showtopic=37602
http://www.cinematog...showtopic=19708

there are probaly a few others as this topic comes up regularly.

I have heard in the last week two different places telling me that Dale Labs in Florida is and is not still processing movie neg. they did stop making slides from neg as of the end of July.
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#3 Ari Davidson

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 12:28 AM

Tis a hard thing to find.


Agreed.

Thank you so much for your timely response. I have searched some more on forums such as apug.org and flickr. It seems there has been some success using the c-41 process by people who removed the remjet muck with sodium bicarbonate, sponges, etc. The results vary as much as the methods.

I also found some discussion about using print stocks because they don't have remjet layers. However, someone mentioned that they have a low EI (circa 2), and I'm sure cans would be hard to come by on this side of the lab. I will research these methods closer and post my results.
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#4 Brian Pritchard

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 07:46 AM

Agreed.

Thank you so much for your timely response. I have searched some more on forums such as apug.org and flickr. It seems there has been some success using the c-41 process by people who removed the remjet muck with sodium bicarbonate, sponges, etc. The results vary as much as the methods.

I also found some discussion about using print stocks because they don't have remjet layers. However, someone mentioned that they have a low EI (circa 2), and I'm sure cans would be hard to come by on this side of the lab. I will research these methods closer and post my results.


Actually all labs are able to run very short lengths - they regularly run control strips which are less than 2 ft long. However most do not want to be bothered and feel thay can't charge a realistic fee to make it worth while.

When I worked at Humphries, many years ago, we all used Eastman colour neg in our still cameras and the rushes grader would attach the processed neg to a roll of rushes and make us a set of slides on colour print stock. They would all have the same grading but usually were quite acceptable; you just had to be extra careful with your exposure.
Brian
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#5 Richard Tuohy

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Posted 18 August 2009 - 06:17 PM

Just make sure you don't send a film cartridge loaded with ecnII film to a mini-lab or you will make a hell of a mess!
Your best bet is to find a movie lab that is willing to help you out.
It is possible to buy the kodak kit chemistry directly from Kodak. However, the kit chemistry is not meant for home use but for small lab use. The boxes in the kit are mostly 20 Litre concentrates. It is possible to do the rem-jet removal stage more cleanly than the 'sponge' method you mentioned, simply by using the correct kodak pre-bath chemistry (which is one of the cheapest parts of the kit). But you don't want to do that. And shooting print stock won't help you with deciding how mp films look. Nor will processing ecnII film in c41 as the c41 developer will yield a different gamma than the encII developer. So find a sympathetic lab is my advice.
cheers,
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#6 stockman

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Posted 12 December 2009 - 12:53 AM

I recently did my first C41 processing with a Fuji Hunt kit can anyone tell how to use the effect for achieving different colours
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#7 Hal Smith

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Posted 12 December 2009 - 12:39 PM

We have film lab people that hang out here on the Forum. The reason labs don't like to run short lengths is economic. Unless you're about to give them a large order following a series of still camera tests it's just too much hassle for them. But for a price anything's possible.

Let's do a little research for the labs:

How much would YOU be willing to pay for ECNII developing of still camera film? I personally would be glad to pay $25 for the first 36 exposures and $12.50 for any subsequent 36 exposure lengths that could be spliced onto the first roll.
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#8 Fred Neilsen

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Posted 12 December 2009 - 04:52 PM

How much would YOU be willing to pay for ECNII developing of still camera film? I personally would be glad to pay $25 for the first 36 exposures and $12.50 for any subsequent 36 exposure lengths that could be spliced onto the first roll.


Neglab, here in Australia, has their price for 35mm stills listed at AU$15/roll. (which is according to the website negotiable)

http://www.neglab.co.../index.php?id=3

Edited by Frederik Nielssen, 12 December 2009 - 04:53 PM.

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#9 Charles MacDonald

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Posted 12 December 2009 - 08:24 PM

How much would YOU be willing to pay for ECNII developing of still camera film? I personally would be glad to pay $25 for the first 36 exposures and $12.50 for any subsequent 36 exposure lengths that could be spliced onto the first roll.


There are two issues, which are a bit harder to deal with.

The folks who did ECN still in the past used to use "stills Oriented" film splicers. to make you the orders. These are like for example the ones that are used to splice Kodachrome at the (remaining) lab. they use a termal process simalar to the way paper slide mounts work.

The second issue is to actually PRINT the resuting negs onto Print film. The difficuty here is that even if the lab picks a "best light"- the printer would be half way through the roll before the light changed. Back in there heyday Dale devised their own machine to expose a frame at a time, using (I guess) the sort of exposure timing that a Still Printer uses when making RA4 prints.

Another minor item is that to be easy to project the Print needs to go into slide mounts. _ Not a problem for a lab that already dies Ektachrome and fujichrome slides, but a thousand dollar investment in a slide monter for a MP lab.
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#10 Bruce Toscano

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Posted 25 December 2009 - 02:01 PM

I have done this several times in the past. I always use a bulk back on either a Pentax or Nikon and that way you have 20-30' to work with and lab is happy. Of course you might have to educate the lab on how to open the bulk back light tight spools the first time you take it in. Don't wind the film onto a core, just take the Nikon or Pentax spool in. I've only had one problem with this. The lab tech couldn't figure out how to open it to get the film out. Simple fix though. One lesson and their good!
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#11 Zack Spiger

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Posted 30 December 2009 - 05:46 PM

I have done this several times in the past. I always use a bulk back on either a Pentax or Nikon and that way you have 20-30' to work with and lab is happy. Of course you might have to educate the lab on how to open the bulk back light tight spools the first time you take it in. Don't wind the film onto a core, just take the Nikon or Pentax spool in. I've only had one problem with this. The lab tech couldn't figure out how to open it to get the film out. Simple fix though. One lesson and their good!


Bruce,
What is bulk back and where can I get one. That sounds incredible!
thanks, Zack
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#12 John Salim

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Posted 31 December 2009 - 11:46 AM

Bruce,
What is bulk back and where can I get one. That sounds incredible!
thanks, Zack


Zack, Here's a link to see some Nikon bulk magazines.....
http://www.mir.com.m...back/index1.htm

John S :rolleyes:

[attachment=5932:Nikon_F3...250_back.jpg]
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#13 Simon Wyss

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Posted 31 December 2009 - 01:55 PM

We have film lab people that hang out here on the Forum. The reason labs don't like to run short lengths is economic.

Nuuhh, Hal, I'd say the reason is technical. They don't like to stitch or tape so many short lengths together and the stitches tear the squeegees down. Damaged squeegees are something most unwanted with processing machines.
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#14 Jay Stewart

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Posted 11 January 2010 - 02:41 PM

Dale Labs in Florida still offers this I believe.

Jason
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#15 Charles MacDonald

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Posted 11 January 2010 - 08:36 PM

Dale Labs in Florida still offers this I believe.

Jason
Certified Film


UNfortunatly they have apperently discontinued the service of processing ECN for stills as of the middle of last year. <_< :(
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#16 Joshua Csehak

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 04:46 PM

I just talked to a guy at Cinelab (http://www.cinelab.com), and he said they'd do it. Not sure how much it'll be, but I'm gonna buy some short ends and find out.
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#17 Tony Brown

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Posted 23 January 2010 - 01:53 PM

Not only will labs in the UK process it they'll load the stuff as well (as will kodak)

Never had a problem with this though not needed to do it for some years now........ Can't you tag it onto a job? I think you'll find Kodak and the labs are quite helpful at the moment
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#18 Serge Teulon

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Posted 24 January 2010 - 09:43 AM

Not only will labs in the UK process it they'll load the stuff as well (as will kodak)


Kodak has always been very helpful with film stock in stills cases.
When I hunted around for a quote the cheapest price I got was £50....i think it was ilab.

Cheers
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