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S8 Camera's - Budget Options


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#1 Chloe Borkett

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 02:38 PM

Hi there!

I'm a photographer not a cinematographer, so I don't know much about what kit is good etc. I've been squatting up though and although the 'Which Super 8 Camera to Pick and Buy' thread is great... it's expensive!!!

I was just wondering what a cheaper alternative to a Canon 814 or 1014 would be? Something with the same functionality but waaaaaaaaay cheaper!!!!

Just some brands and models would be fab so I can do some more research rather than not knowing what to even look for!!!

Thanks in advance for any advice!

Chloe
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#2 Kent Kumpula

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 02:53 PM

... it's expensive!!!


No, the cameras are not expensive. What is expensive is the film, and perhaps Telecine. But the cameras are practically free. Buy a good camera, I´d recommend a Beaulieu 4008. It gives you great quality, being one of the best super8 cameras that exists.

Hell with a quick search I found on the first page on Ebay a Beualieu 4008 as a Buy-it-now for $650, newly serviced and in perfect working condition (according to the seller). If you look around without buying the first buy-it-now you can find you will probably get them for even less money.

Could you find a decent digital videocamera for that little money? I don´t think so. And what is more important is... what would you get when you sell your digital videocamera after like 2-3 years? Almost nothing.

But what will you get for your Beaulieu 4008 after 2-3 years (if you would choose to sell it)? Well I bet you´d get almost as much as you gave for the camera. Making the real "cameracost" extremely low, regardless if you think $400-$600 is expensive today. You will get it back, so it is almost like having money in the bank. (I said almost!) :)

Edited by Kent Kumpula, 17 August 2009 - 02:55 PM.

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#3 Chloe Borkett

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 04:01 PM

Hahah I know it's not bad... but I don't have $600 ... I was thinking more $200!!!!!

I only want it for small projects...
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#4 Rick Palidwor

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 06:01 PM

I was just wondering what a cheaper alternative to a Canon 814 or 1014 would be? Something with the same functionality but waaaaaaaaay cheaper!!!!


Depends on what you mean by Main Functionality as you tend to pay for functions. And it depends on which model line of 814 and 1014 you are looking at.

For the $200 range you are willing to spend you may be able to get a Canon 814 Auto Zoom (older line, silver body). Nice cameras but only shoot 12, 18, 24fps and single. Heck, if you can get by with just 18 and 24 fps I find the Canon 518 Auto Zoom's reliable little units for less than $100. If you need slow motion look at the Canon 518 Auto Zoom Electronic (though it is only about 36fps, so not that slow). But good reliable cameras for $150 or less. Also, look at the Nikon 8X Super zooms or Super Zoom 8: only shoot 12, 18, 24 and single but great little tanks for $200 or less. You can also look at the Minolta D4 or D6. Decent little cameras for a decent price.

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#5 Peter Dean

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 09:05 PM

Hahah I know it's not bad... but I don't have $600 ... I was thinking more $200!!!!!

I only want it for small projects...


You should look into the mid-range Nizos, or Nizo compacts (http://super8arena.c...p?cPath=2_18_27), and Bauers (http://super8arena.c...hp?cPath=2_7_26). These are great cameras, and cheap too! It's that great German design.

Remember, you're going to be spending more money on film, processing, and transfer! So if you only have $200 bucks to spend, you might want to save up a bit more before you start this project.
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#6 Will Montgomery

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Posted 18 August 2009 - 08:52 AM

Canon 814 Auto Zoom (older line, silver body)


This would be a great first camera. Rock solid with a great lens. I bought mine for around $80 on eBay about 6 years ago. They've gone up a little but you shouldn't pay over $150.

Get an inexpensive camera and see if you enjoy it. If you do, you can always save up for a better camera. As has been said, Film and Telecine are what's expensive so that may limit what you do anyway.
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#7 Chloe Borkett

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Posted 18 August 2009 - 03:02 PM

This would be a great first camera. Rock solid with a great lens. I bought mine for around $80 on eBay about 6 years ago. They've gone up a little but you shouldn't pay over $150.

Get an inexpensive camera and see if you enjoy it. If you do, you can always save up for a better camera. As has been said, Film and Telecine are what's expensive so that may limit what you do anyway.


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#8 Chloe Borkett

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Posted 18 August 2009 - 03:09 PM

This would be a great first camera. Rock solid with a great lens.

Exactly - I'm just looking for a cheap entry level camera - but obviously wanted to know the ones that had decent lenses, different film speeds and a decent zoom range on the lense, oh and light metering capabilities - which this little bad boy seems to have.

I did start a project last year, but I borrowed a Bolex from a friend and it was pretty bad.. you couldn't adjust the light meter and it was so heavy, I had serious camera shake. So I wanted to invest a little more in something a little easier to handle. Doesn't mean the short I was trying to make is going to be any better, but it might just make things easier...
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#9 Chloe Borkett

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Posted 18 August 2009 - 03:42 PM

Thanks for your tipsters really helpful...

I realise I know rather little about film. So perhaps you could help me some more so I continue wading through my decision making!!

Is it good to have fades, time laspe etc functionality built into the camera - I thought you could do this shiz in FCP or whatever?? Could you explain?

Also by functionality I was referencing the above but also the lense range, how you focus. Do you see through the lens or is it a range finder that kinda stuff, as personally that can affect the way I work... oh and to have a good light meter... although I have an external meter if you have no way of altering the settings on the camera its redundant, right?
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#10 Will Montgomery

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Posted 19 August 2009 - 10:52 AM

If you're used to consumer camcorders then focus may be a tough transition.

On my Canon 814 AutoZoom I always zoom in as close as possible, focus, then zoom back out knowing the focus is good. Most of the problems with your first shots will be focus related. Film cameras take a little more planing than video; just the nature of the beast.

At least with Super 8 you can generally rely on built in meters to automatically handle your exposures. If you move to 16mm you usually have to handle that manually as well which adds another layer of complication.
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#11 Robert Hughes

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Posted 19 August 2009 - 04:03 PM

Take a look also at the Nikon R8 and R10 cameras (same body, different lenses, both good). Also look at the better Bauers such as the S 715 XL. I have these cameras, in addition to a Beaulieu 4008 - they are all nice. The problem with the Beaulieu is its need for a special battery - the others take standard AA cells.

Edited by Robert Hughes, 19 August 2009 - 04:04 PM.

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#12 Steve Phipps

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Posted 21 August 2009 - 06:23 AM

You should look into the mid-range Nizos, or Nizo compacts

Agree. I think a Nizo 481 or 561 (also, the earlier S480 and S560) will be in this price range. The Macro versions will be relatively more expensive, and desirable.

One potential issue with the Nizo's is the light-meter battery. Before buying a Nizo, you will want to educate yourself about the 1.35v mercury battery. The Canon won't have that issue.

The Canon 514 is another excellent camera, in my opinion. And it should be in your price range.

Remember, you're going to be spending more money on film, processing, and transfer! So if you only have $200 bucks to spend, you might want to save up a bit more before you start this project.

Agree.
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#13 Gareth Blackstock

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Posted 21 August 2009 - 07:58 AM

there are dozens of cameras out there that are worthy of shooting great images, sankyo, chinon, yashica, hannimex, elmo, et all! If anything, these cameras might be a little less used than the popular canons.

concerning functions, as long as it can shoot 18 and 24 fps, has a manual exposure ability, and can take E64 film cartridges, you will have no problems. Be sure the camera takes "AA" batteries, rechargeable ones may be well past thier useability. Be sure no special items are required to hold the batteries in the handle such as plastic battery packs. Be sure to check the lens for fungus, and avoid, looks like tiny cobwebs inside the lens, avoid scratches no matter what the seller says.

if the camera has "XL" on it, this means it can shoot low light happily, if not "XL" use some lights.
by and large people have very different experiences with all types of cameras, but most cameras take good images, are reliable, and robust.

The cameras i mentioned above can be bought for as little as $15 to as high as $45 on ebay, cheap enough to experiment with! At these prices buy three!

happy shopping
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#14 Gareth Blackstock

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Posted 21 August 2009 - 08:18 AM

Below are links to some cameras off ebay.com, usa version. just examples of worthy cameras

http://cgi.ebay.com/...id=p3286.c0.m14

http://cgi.ebay.com/...id=p3286.c0.m14

http://cgi.ebay.com/...id=p3286.c0.m14

http://cgi.ebay.com/...id=p3286.c0.m14

http://cgi.ebay.com/...id=p3286.c0.m14
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#15 Terry Mester

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Posted 23 August 2009 - 08:15 PM

Check out all the Flea Markets and Second Hand Stores in your area. I found an Argus and Editor for $25 CDN each, and a Sankyo for $25 which I bumped up to $40 because it was basically new! I also got a Projector for $30. Unlike mail order, Markets and Stores require no postage fees or customs.
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#16 fabian gebbert

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Posted 25 August 2009 - 06:47 AM

Hey,

maybe someone already mentioned it. but you should ask yourself clearly what do you want to film with that camera.

1. indoors or outdoors?
2. night or day?
3. fast movements?
4. for what do you use the material? projection? digitalisation? (this may affect the framerate (look for pulldown 2:3 etc.))
5. Do you just want to try it out? Then buy a cheap cam that can use the Eckta 64T. be carefull on fleamarkets many cams for 5 bucks cant read 64T.
6. In what country do you live? i have read from people in the USA who payed a lot for a nizo. i payd für mine 6080 perfect running contition with loads of equipment, syncmodule, UWL3 etc etc only 150 Bucks (euros).
7. what kind of telecine you want to do? DYI? professional with negative stock?
8. dont expect too much from your first vid ;-)
9. buying a bealieu as your first cam makes no sense. its like buying the most expensive snowboard while you dont know how to use it...

did this help? btw. there are a lot camera buying tutorials out there. ask your friend google.

Edited by fabian gebbert, 25 August 2009 - 06:49 AM.

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#17 Kent Kumpula

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Posted 25 August 2009 - 06:55 AM

buying a bealieu as your first cam makes no sense. its like buying the most expensive snowboard while you dont know how to use it...


Not a good comparison. If you buy a brand new and expensive snowboard you will loose a lot of money since the price goes down a lot (if you´d find out that snowboarding isn´t your "thing"). And you won´t be any better at snowboarding with a expensive snowboard if you are a newbie.

If you buy a Beaulieu and find out that 8mm is not your "thing" you can sell it for the same amount of money. And you will get better images with a Beaulieu even as a newbie.
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#18 fabian gebbert

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Posted 25 August 2009 - 11:42 AM

Not a good comparison. If you buy a brand new and expensive snowboard you will loose a lot of money since the price goes down a lot (if you´d find out that snowboarding isn´t your "thing"). And you won´t be any better at snowboarding with a expensive snowboard if you are a newbie.

If you buy a Beaulieu and find out that 8mm is not your "thing" you can sell it for the same amount of money. And you will get better images with a Beaulieu even as a newbie.


hey there. realy? you still have to bring up the money to buy it. i guess not everyone has 600 bucks ready to use for just an experiment, even if you can sell it afterwards for the same amount. also a bealieu is maybe more difficult for many people to use as a simple one. also a bealieu dont make you a better beginner as e.g. a cheap nizo. look at youtube and type in bealieu super8. crappy film test done that dont look better than a 5 bucks cam (yes yes i know also many good :-).
also the cam can go broke while you use it. then the money is no more... you learn driving not in an aston martin, you will learn it in an small car. i did it that way. first i used an old cam of my dad to make experiments to see if i like it and for what i can use the material i will shoot. then i bought a better cam which i needet für my special purposes. i needed a silent one, because of planned voice recordings. also, what if you dont want to have the kind of footage the beau delivers? what if you want some more "crappy" for the effect? i cant reccomend someone to buy a camera without knowing for what he needs this. or do you use a hasselblad for vacation pics?

anyway it is not the filmcamera making the movie, it the filmmaker ;-)

Edited by fabian gebbert, 25 August 2009 - 11:47 AM.

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#19 Kent Kumpula

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Posted 25 August 2009 - 01:35 PM

you still have to bring up the money to buy it.


Of course you do. You can´t buy something without having the money needed, that seems pretty logical.

also a bealieu is maybe more difficult for many people to use as a simple one.


Really? How is it more difficult to use? Besides having to use the rechargable battery (but that wouldn´t be much of a problem if the camera was newly serviced and sold with a working battery).


also the cam can go broke while you use it. then the money is no more...


You could get hit by a car just by crossing the street too. I still fail to see your point?

you learn driving not in an aston martin, you will learn it in an small car.


Yes, obviously. (if you are not the son of a billionaire) And the reason for this is the price. A Aston Martin is a lot more expensive.

also, what if you dont want to have the kind of footage the beau delivers? what if you want some more "crappy" for the effect?


Wow, you make it sound as if I am truing to push a Beaulieu in his mouth while he is screaming "Noooo!!!" It isn´t quite so.

do you use a hasselblad for vacation pics?


Your comparisons get worse each time you give it a go.

If I could get a complete Hasselblad for the same price as a Beaulieu 4008, and I could buy, shoot and process the film for the same price as any other cheapo 35mm processing then sure, I´d be the first to buy a Hasselblad.

Perhaps you didn´t understand it, or perhaps I wasn´t good enough at explaining... But in the first post I tried to make a point about the camera not being expensive, not even if you´d buy a newly serviced Beaulieu. It is the film, processing and telecine that gets expensive. The cameras cost so little money they are practically free.

Edited by Kent Kumpula, 25 August 2009 - 01:38 PM.

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#20 fabian gebbert

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Posted 25 August 2009 - 02:17 PM

hey,

i guess you have generally a different view on things. but this is not a reason to offend me.
generally i think you have more the "professional" view on 8mm. but for people not beeing professionals a normal cam would do. i knew when i wrote buing a beaulieu as a frist cam ist not a sooo good idea would draw some "attention". but anyway, stillt the point: buy a cam that you will realy need. everything else is not effextive (from a businessman point of view).

"Wow, you make it sound as if I am truing to push a Beaulieu in his mouth while he is screaming "Noooo!!!" It isn´t quite so."

sorry if you got this perception. but i didnt intend to do so.

kind regards.

Edited by fabian gebbert, 25 August 2009 - 02:22 PM.

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