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Red Scracht on the negative.


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#1 Daniel Miranda

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Posted 20 August 2009 - 09:12 PM

Hi my friends i have a big cuestion to do. yesterday i was working as a second camera assistant; i loaded 8 mags with (5219 500T), and today i recived a call from the producer saying that one of the rolls has a vertical red scracht in the meddle from the beging to the end of the roll, could it be my mistake at the moment of loading the negative? or could be something at the lab?. what does it means a Red scratch at the moment to made the transfer.

Many Greetings
Daniel Miranda
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#2 Saul Rodgar

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Posted 20 August 2009 - 10:12 PM

i loaded 8 mags with (5219 500T), and today i recived a call from the producer saying that one of the rolls has a vertical red scracht in the meddle from the beging to the end of the roll, could it be my mistake at the moment of loading the negative?


Grain of sand at the gate?

Was the scratch red to the naked eye (on negative itself) or after on the footage after it was telecine'd?
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#3 Daniel Miranda

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Posted 21 August 2009 - 02:37 AM

Grain of sand at the gate?

Was the scratch red to the naked eye (on negative itself) or after on the footage after it was telecine'd?


after telecined, by the way it was an Arri 235 camera.

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#4 Stephen Williams

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Posted 21 August 2009 - 03:44 AM

after telecined, by the way it was an Arri 235 camera.

Greetings
Daniel


Hi,

FWIW a member here owns a 235, he has continually had issuses with scratching.
Kodak need to take a look at the negative and advise where the sctatch occured.
I assume the production had negative insurance?

Stephen
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#5 Daniel Miranda

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Posted 21 August 2009 - 11:04 AM

I assume the production had negative insurance?

Stephen


No they don't have an insurance.

Edited by Daniel Miranda, 21 August 2009 - 11:05 AM.

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#6 Robert Houllahan

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Posted 21 August 2009 - 01:07 PM

could it be my mistake at the moment of loading the negative? or could be something at the lab?. what does it means a Red scratch at the moment to made the transfer.



Is the scratch a straight line? does it weave back and forth? In general a red scratch is a very deep scratch as most stocks have the blue layer on top then green in the middle and red on the bottom, closest to the base. Usually a scratch that happens in processing is a pressure mark or top layer scratch and will be blue.

If the scratch is a straight line and red plus it did not appear on any other rolls in the processing run I would say that it is a camera problem.

-Rob-
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#7 Stephen Williams

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Posted 21 August 2009 - 01:08 PM

No they don't have an insurance.


Hi Daniel,

I guessed you would say that, technically they are 'Self Insured' and will have to pay out of their own pocket to fix the matter.

Stephen
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#8 Daniel Miranda

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Posted 21 August 2009 - 04:49 PM

Here are a still frame with the red line. the scratch appears at the begining of the roll disappear at the medle and appears at the end again.

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#9 Saul Rodgar

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Posted 21 August 2009 - 08:19 PM

Interesting. Something against the pressure plate somehow created the scratch?

Could it be something on the mag dependent on the tension / torque of the take up / feed pulleys?

What type of the 5 or so magazines for 235 was it?

Did you ID this roll's mag on your camera report?

If so, I would run some slug on the camera w/ offending mag until I get the scratch and then isolate the problem. Also contacting Arri may help, as apparently that camera model has a history with scratches.

The prod co may have to get a wet gate interneg made from the scratched neg and re-transfer or fix the hero shots on that reel digitally.

Edited by Saul Rodgar, 21 August 2009 - 08:20 PM.

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#10 Robert Houllahan

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Posted 22 August 2009 - 01:36 PM

The prod co may have to get a wet gate interneg made from the scratched neg and re-transfer or fix the hero shots on that reel digitally.


Seeing the pic it does look like a base scratch rather than an emulsion to me. It does not seem deep enough or red enough to be a deep emulsion gouge a wet gate scan or transfer might take it out. I believe some Arriscans have wet gates or that Arri is working on a wet gate system Oxberry Cine-Scans also can be fitted with wet gate.

You might want to contact Cineric in NYC (http://www.cineric.com/) they specialize in this type of work and have a wet gate for their Oxberry scanner.

-Rob-
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#11 Stephen Williams

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Posted 22 August 2009 - 02:09 PM

Seeing the pic it does look like a base scratch rather than an emulsion to me. It does not seem deep enough or red enough to be a deep emulsion gouge a wet gate scan or transfer might take it out. I believe some Arriscans have wet gates or that Arri is working on a wet gate system Oxberry Cine-Scans also can be fitted with wet gate.

You might want to contact Cineric in NYC (http://www.cineric.com/) they specialize in this type of work and have a wet gate for their Oxberry scanner.

-Rob-


I saw a demo of a Cintel scanner that could remove sandpaper scratches!
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#12 Robert Houllahan

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Posted 22 August 2009 - 03:36 PM

I saw a demo of a Cintel scanner that could remove sandpaper scratches!



There are allot of good real time methods of removing scratches these days especially base scratches there might not be any need to do expensive post fixes on this problem just get it scanned on a scanner or telecine that has scratch removal capability and it may be like it never happened...

-Rob-
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#13 John Sprung

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 03:35 PM

Here are a still frame with the red line. the scratch appears at the begining of the roll disappear at the medle and appears at the end again.


Does it appear in exactly the same place both times? If so, it's most likely to be a nick on some stationary metal part rather than a grain of sand, which naturally would move around. Is it continuous, or does the depth vary in the same way on every frame? Scratches from the gate tend to show some evidence of the discontinuity of the pulldown motion.

To me it sounds most likely to be an internal problem in the magazine throat, not your fault. If this is strictly for an electronic finish, the MTI or Digital Vision boxes can very easily fix this scratch.




-- J.S.
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#14 Daniel Miranda

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Posted 28 August 2009 - 07:57 PM

Thank you all.
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#15 K Borowski

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Posted 29 August 2009 - 09:55 AM

Thank you all.


Daniel, maybe we can chalk this up to poor monitor calibration issues, but that scratch just doesn't look red at all to me; it looks black.

Can you verify for certain if it is on the base (clear side) or emulsion (rough side) of the film?

I'd hate to see you rush off an attempt an optical fix if it is an emulsion scratch. Base scratches can be fixed through wet gate or digital ice scanning. Emulsion scratches can't. Don't want to see you or production waste money.
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