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Angenieux lense for Beaulieu Vs. lens on Nikon R8


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#1 Ted Hinkle

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Posted 21 August 2009 - 01:22 PM

I've got a Beaulieu 4008 ZM II with a Angenieux Zoom 8-64mm and a Nikon R8 with 7.5-60mm lens. I do like using the Beaulieu however most of the footage I shoot with the Angenieux lense seems rather dull in comparison to the Nikon. When I use my super wide angle lense on the Beaulieu the footage turns out great. For some reason whenever I shoot with the Angenieux lense on the beaulieu I'm never satisfied. Not that it's horrible and there's something wrong with the lense it's just not that great. Is this typical of this angenieux lense, is it just my lense, is there a zoom lense comparable to the nikon or better that I can mount on my beaulieu that's within a $200 - $300 budget?
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#2 andy oliver

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Posted 21 August 2009 - 03:56 PM

Hi, you say the image is rather dull on the beaulieu, do you mean under exposed, are the images darker? Providing the 8-64 in haze and fungus free and your inbuilt 85 or skylight filter are in good condition, you should obtain great images, even at f1.9 with the 8-64 lens. The best zoom lens for the 4008 will be the schneider 6-66 followed by the angenieux 6-80 lens. When was your camera/lens last checked by a service technician?
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#3 Kent Kumpula

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Posted 22 August 2009 - 11:29 AM

...most of the footage I shoot with the Angenieux lense seems rather dull in comparison to the Nikon.


The Beaulieu should provide excellent images. How are you looking at the footage, after telecine or with a projector? If it is after telecine, perhaps the Beaulieu transfer wasn´t all that great?
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#4 Robert Hughes

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Posted 22 August 2009 - 01:06 PM

It's possible you need to get your lens collimated. I have a Beaulieu 4008ZM2 with the Schneider lens, and notice the ground glass focuses in a different spot than the aerial image - so mine needs collimation also. In general, lenses that are designed to be detached (like those on the 4008) are more likely to need collimation and focus adjustment than hard mounted lenses like the Nikons.

Edited by Robert Hughes, 22 August 2009 - 01:07 PM.

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#5 Ted Hinkle

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Posted 22 August 2009 - 02:47 PM

I picked up the camera about 2 years ago and I've shot with it probably a little over a dozen times shooting anywhere from 4rolls to 12 rolls each time. When I first purchased it I had a tech look at it and he said everything looked pretty good. But I've never had it collimated so that's probably the issue, I could have been a hair overexposed too making the picture seem a little washed out. I'm sure it's something that I should have done sooner. I just thought I'd check to make sure the lens had a good reputation before I spent the money to collimate it, camera needs serviced anyways so that's a no brainer. I do wish I could get a little wider with the image though maybe I'll check out that schneider 6-66mm zoom. Thanks for the advice guys!
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#6 Andries Molenaar

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Posted 22 August 2009 - 03:08 PM

It's possible you need to get your lens collimated. I have a Beaulieu 4008ZM2 with the Schneider lens, and notice the ground glass focuses in a different spot than the aerial image - so mine needs collimation also. In general, lenses that are designed to be detached (like those on the 4008) are more likely to need collimation and focus adjustment than hard mounted lenses like the Nikons.



So you can tell without a collimator and just from your aerial image, which is not focusable at all that you need your lens collimated ??? What a pack of nonsense.

Collimation is just checking and adjusting the rear lens of the imaging-lens if it projects images from infinity in focus on the film plane. You would need a collimator for that.

If your images are in focus but dull collimation has nothing to offer. If you haven't dropped the lens it is unlikely to be needing collimation. If it is not fogged somehow and the internal filter is clear it is at the best it can do.


Send it to Bernie at super16inc.com in USA Maine to have it checked if you must. He handles Beaulieu S8 cameras too.

Likely the images look dull only when compared to a much better and contrastier character lens as the Nikkor. The Nikkors on the R8 and R10 are the utmost best lenses for S8 filming. Not to forget the filmgate and stop-pin on these cameras. Too bad they aren't available in C-mounted tubes.
On its own the Angenieux may look nice enough.

Edited by Andries Molenaar, 22 August 2009 - 03:13 PM.

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#7 Ted Hinkle

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Posted 22 August 2009 - 07:23 PM

Likely the images look dull only when compared to a much better and contrastier character lens as the Nikkor. The Nikkors on the R8 and R10 are the utmost best lenses for S8 filming. Not to forget the filmgate and stop-pin on these cameras. Too bad they aren't available in C-mounted tubes.
On its own the Angenieux may look nice enough.


You see I think this might be what I'm talking about. I just looked at and compared the footage side by side, instead of recalling the footage to mind from my head. It wasn't so much that the images where dull I think it's more like Andries said the image I got from the nikkor lens is more "contrastier"... it pops more. Where as the image I got from the Angenieux was just ok. It left me wanting more. Although...

Huge! As another note I just picked up my beaulieu with the angeniuex zoom lens on it and while looking through the lens I found that there is no apparent adjustment for focus! I cant get anything to go out of focus. Is there a written manual for this lens, because something isn't adding up? There is a slider on the top side of the lens that is closest to the screw mount, it has a little red dot on it. It kinda snaps into place at the top of the camera but if I pull it or slide it downward everything goes out of focus and no matter what I do nothing will focus unless it's in that top position... is that the macro setting? If so when I pull it down and nothing will focus does that mean the lens is jacked up? Will collimating fix that? Wow what is up with this?

Edited by Ted Hinkle, 22 August 2009 - 07:25 PM.

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#8 Andries Molenaar

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Posted 23 August 2009 - 01:12 PM

You see I think this might be what I'm talking about. I just looked at and compared the footage side by side, instead of recalling the footage to mind from my head. It wasn't so much that the images where dull I think it's more like Andries said the image I got from the nikkor lens is more "contrastier"... it pops more. Where as the image I got from the Angenieux was just ok. It left me wanting more. Although...

Huge! As another note I just picked up my beaulieu with the angeniuex zoom lens on it and while looking through the lens I found that there is no apparent adjustment for focus! I cant get anything to go out of focus. Is there a written manual for this lens, because something isn't adding up? There is a slider on the top side of the lens that is closest to the screw mount, it has a little red dot on it. It kinda snaps into place at the top of the camera but if I pull it or slide it downward everything goes out of focus and no matter what I do nothing will focus unless it's in that top position... is that the macro setting? If so when I pull it down and nothing will focus does that mean the lens is jacked up? Will collimating fix that? Wow what is up with this?



The sliding knob with red point is for macro. Leave it in the upper, locked position.

You cannot focus on the aerial image.

For testing focusing swing in the ground-glass. Have the camera on a tripod. adjust the viewfinder for your eye. Make sure yu see the needle sharp. Open the aperture fully. And see if you can focus the image. Really far objects and things closer by. The distance markings should be correct for the focused items. Run brief shots of films on the selected items. That way you see if things line-up. Likely you don't collimation at $200-300

Searh the web for a manual. www.super8.no
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#9 Ted Hinkle

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Posted 23 August 2009 - 01:41 PM

So the purpose of the ground glass is to check focus? I feel kinda dumb for not knowing that. I guess I need to get to know this camera a little better. I do remember trying that, but still couldn't get anything out of focus. I should also say that my endeavor is mostly to get some depth of field in my image. Getting the image in focus isn't the problem, because everything seems to be in focus no matter what I do. The problem is getting some DOF. I try it again but I'll follow your instructions Andries and see what happens. Will let you guys know.
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#10 Ted Hinkle

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Posted 24 August 2009 - 02:49 PM

Ok well I must have been doing something wrong, seems to be working fine now. Getting it out in the bright day helped a bit too. Don't think it needs collimated but I'll have it checked out. Ground glass didn't seem to help at all and it looks pretty dirty. What's the purpose of it? Doesn't seem to help me focus.
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#11 Rafael Rivera

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Posted 24 August 2009 - 03:08 PM

Ok well I must have been doing something wrong, seems to be working fine now. Getting it out in the bright day helped a bit too. Don't think it needs collimated but I'll have it checked out. Ground glass didn't seem to help at all and it looks pretty dirty. What's the purpose of it? Doesn't seem to help me focus.



A guess: check the f-stop, sounds like you've got it at 22 ("bright day helped" + "doesn't help me focus").

A large f-stop will yield a shallow DOF.
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#12 Kent Kumpula

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Posted 24 August 2009 - 03:13 PM

If you cannot see the focus with the groung glass inserted/in use... in any F-stop, then the camera doesen´t sound OK to me.
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#13 Andries Molenaar

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Posted 24 August 2009 - 03:48 PM

Ok well I must have been doing something wrong, seems to be working fine now. Getting it out in the bright day helped a bit too. Don't think it needs collimated but I'll have it checked out. Ground glass didn't seem to help at all and it looks pretty dirty. What's the purpose of it? Doesn't seem to help me focus.


I don't understand how you can be camera operator with so little understanding of classic optics and photography. Find the manual and do some further reading on DOF, aperture control, and focusing. Everything will prove fine then.

Good luck.
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#14 Chris Burke

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Posted 24 August 2009 - 07:15 PM

I've got a Beaulieu 4008 ZM II with a Angenieux Zoom 8-64mm and a Nikon R8 with 7.5-60mm lens. I do like using the Beaulieu however most of the footage I shoot with the Angenieux lense seems rather dull in comparison to the Nikon. When I use my super wide angle lense on the Beaulieu the footage turns out great. For some reason whenever I shoot with the Angenieux lense on the beaulieu I'm never satisfied. Not that it's horrible and there's something wrong with the lense it's just not that great. Is this typical of this angenieux lense, is it just my lense, is there a zoom lense comparable to the nikon or better that I can mount on my beaulieu that's within a $200 - $300 budget?



There is a whole world of lenses available for this camera. There are many great C mount prime lenses around, some rather affordable. You can also obtain a C mount to "what ever" adapter ie...Canon, Nikon, C mount to PL opens even more options. With a PL adapter, you can rent the best glass made in the world. I would have your Angeniuex checked out, but don't be surprised to find out that it is fine and the Nikkor is just a snappier lens.
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#15 Ted Hinkle

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Posted 25 August 2009 - 06:21 PM

I don't understand how you can be camera operator with so little understanding of classic optics and photography. Find the manual and do some further reading on DOF, aperture control, and focusing. Everything will prove fine then.

Good luck.


It was just a dumb mistake I overlooked while inspecting my camera. I feel I understand DOF, aperture control, and focusing pretty well. 35mm SLR cameras and Video cameras typically don't have ground glass that flips into the screen, aside from your Redrock M2 and other 35mm spinning ground glass adapters. It's not something everyone has to work with to make a living. The extent of the manual for the Beaulieu 4008 ZMII on ground glass isn't much more than one sentence that says "The advantage of the screen is that it gives the operator an accurate appreciation of focus and the depth of focus available with the aperature used." I was just wondering since there are so many experts out there that are kind and willing to help out if someone could expound on that a little, or explain how it works to someone who hasn't had the privilege of knowing.
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#16 Bjorn Andersson

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Posted 26 August 2009 - 02:17 AM

It was just a dumb mistake I overlooked while inspecting my camera. I feel I understand DOF, aperture control, and focusing pretty well. 35mm SLR cameras and Video cameras typically don't have ground glass that flips into the screen, aside from your Redrock M2 and other 35mm spinning ground glass adapters. It's not something everyone has to work with to make a living. The extent of the manual for the Beaulieu 4008 ZMII on ground glass isn't much more than one sentence that says "The advantage of the screen is that it gives the operator an accurate appreciation of focus and the depth of focus available with the aperature used." I was just wondering since there are so many experts out there that are kind and willing to help out if someone could expound on that a little, or explain how it works to someone who hasn't had the privilege of knowing.

As it looks like you have the handbook for ZMII. Don´t stop reading at page 12. Go to page 23, "Framing and focussing"
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#17 Ted Hinkle

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Posted 26 August 2009 - 09:08 PM

I guess this is what I get for starting a lame topic.
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#18 Ted Hinkle

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Posted 26 August 2009 - 09:26 PM

Well, for anyone with a lack of experience in this area such as myself. What I found by fiddling with things a little further was that if I zoomed all the way on a object and tried my best to focus on it and then flipped in the ground glass, that it seemed to allow me to dial in the focus a little better. Perhaps that's an accurate interpretation of what the ground glass is to be used for. Please correct me if I'm wrong. That's how we learn right... even if sometimes we have to ask dumb questions just to get a better understanding.

Edited by Ted Hinkle, 26 August 2009 - 09:29 PM.

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#19 Fran Kuhn

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Posted 26 August 2009 - 10:01 PM

Hi Ted,

Just a question: Are you filming with the internal 85 filter in place? (The filter is an amber color, used when shooting with tungsten-balanced film in daylight.) If so, this could be a problem. I have one of those cameras and I had Bernie at Super 16 remove the filter as they deteriorate with age. This could be why the film from the Beaulieu looks less contrasty. I purchased an external 85B filter to use if I ever need to shoot tungsten film outdoors.

BTW I have the same lens, the 8-64 Angenieux, seems like it produces images with normal contrast IMO. One of the Beaulieu techs I spoke to told me it was his all-time favorite lens for that camera; not as sharp as the Schneider, but produced a more pleasing, beautiful organic "bokeh" or vibe. (Okay--a little over the top, this is Super 8, after all.) He thought the "sharper" German glass was too clinical looking.

-Fran
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