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Cheapest HD Telecine


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#1 Bryce Lansing

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Posted 29 August 2009 - 04:04 PM

I just got a Bolex, and I was very excited to start shooting, until I saw the prices and minimums of HD telecine. One lab told me they'd process a 100' roll for free, but the HD telecine would end up costing around $200!

Where can I get a good HD telecine, and not spend too much? I'd like to shoot a 100' roll of negative film.
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#2 marc barbé

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Posted 29 August 2009 - 06:39 PM

I just got a Bolex, and I was very excited to start shooting, until I saw the prices and minimums of HD telecine. One lab told me they'd process a 100' roll for free, but the HD telecine would end up costing around $200!

Where can I get a good HD telecine, and not spend too much? I'd like to shoot a 100' roll of negative film.


Hi,
there"s more and more of this type of posts on this forum.
My question is: why did you get a Bolex in the first place? why did you not look into this question you're asking before you did?
Regards,
Marc.
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#3 Richard Tuohy

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Posted 29 August 2009 - 08:11 PM

It is quite hard to get an affordable telecine of a single 100' roll of 16mm neg. That is the way of it. Yes, its a shame really. But if you want to learn to use your bolex, shoot a few rolls of reversal film. You can project these yourself, or go to a rinky-dink home movie telecine joint for a cheap telecine. Then, if you get to the point where you are ready to shoot a project with it, you might be able to shoot a test roll of colour neg and have it telecinied by a proper telecine house as a trial. The gear to telecine colour neg, and to hd at that, isn't cheap (not like a beautiful old bolex is). Love your bolex, and shoot film with it. All you have to do is have a project-by-project rather than a roll-by-roll approach. And learn to shoot with reversal or with making prints from neg.
good luck,
richard
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#4 Saul Rodgar

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Posted 29 August 2009 - 09:29 PM

Cinelicious does a Rank Diamond HD (SD upressed to HD) for under $300 an hour. It is pretty good for the money. Low light and scenes with a lot of detail (scenery, etc) shot on 16mm can be hard to resolve on that system but overall is worth it if the alternative is SD.

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#5 Jason Hinkle (RIP)

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Posted 29 August 2009 - 09:37 PM

Spectra I think has one of the cheapest one-stop-shop deals but this is an SD transfer. you buy stock from them with processing pre-paid. http://www.spectrafi...o.com/Film.html if you plan your shots carefully you can make a decent short with 400' of film. not bad for $359 - don't forget to factor in shipping too, though!

if you are just experimenting, it's cheaper to buy a projector on eBay and then get a work print made instead of digital transfer, which is usually the expensive part.

Edited by Jason Hinkle, 29 August 2009 - 09:39 PM.

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#6 Bryce Lansing

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Posted 29 August 2009 - 11:51 PM

My dad does have a 16mm projector, but I always shyed away from the thought of shooting reversal film because I heard exposure was so critical, and that it wouldn't look good on anything but a projection. My dads a photographer and he used to shoot a lot of reversal film for slide projection, and he was telling me how prints never looked very good compared to the projection.

But I guess this might be the best bet for a test roll, I wouldn't want to spend too much on a test and end up with a lot of expensive mistakes.
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#7 Jason Hinkle (RIP)

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 12:42 AM

My dad does have a 16mm projector, but I always shyed away from the thought of shooting reversal film because I heard exposure was so critical, and that it wouldn't look good on anything but a projection.


you can shoot negative film and get a work print too. at least where i go it's a lot cheaper than getting a digital transfer because there's a 1-hour minimum for the telecine which is $250. not worth it for 100' of test footage, you have to shoot 400' to get your money's worth.
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#8 Evan Ferrario

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 08:25 AM

If you are in a learning/experimenting phase of filmmaking and want to shoot film as cheap as possible, I would suggest buying a projector and using a minidv or hdv camera to transfer the film yourself. The results will not be close to what you get for an HD transfer, however if something you shoot ends up being terrific and you want to enter it into festivals or do something important with it, you can always transfer again later.

I have been shooting 16mm, about 2 rolls a month testing my equipment and I didn't want to spend the 100's required for telecine just to be able to view my work. I bought an elmo 5 blade projector so that there wouldn't be a problem with the frequency of the camera, I'm not sure what is required for 8mm projection. If you have a 24p camcorder, you can use any projector. I shoot the projected image with my HDV sony camera and then in final cut I invert and color correct the picture.

Like I said it isn't near the quality you will get from a professional, however if you are like me and still learning, it is great to have a way to quickly view my work. You don't have to shoot reversal if you want to project it yourself. I shoot color negative all the time and it is quite easy to invert and set the color to the right levels.

You might not have a camcorder or projector but a projector can be found on ebay very cheap. It would be less than the cost to telecine 200 feet of film. Everyone has access to a digital camcorder in some form or another, I shoot HDV, but the projector, not the camcorder, is really the limiting factor for detail in this kind of setup.

You can get results which are very viewable with this method. It is not comparable to an HD telecine in quality or resolution.

I greatly overexposed this film so it is really light. It gives a good idea of what you can do with a projector.

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#9 Jason Hinkle (RIP)

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 11:49 AM

I greatly overexposed this film so it is really light. It gives a good idea of what you can do with a projector.


Hey Evan - that actually looks pretty good! It looks a lot smoother than most DIY telecine. Do you have a 24p camera and/or did you have to use any flicker removal plugins? Also, how large did you project the film while transferring? I've done that a few times myself but it didn't come out nearly as good as yours.
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#10 Bryce Lansing

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Posted 31 August 2009 - 11:06 AM

If you are in a learning/experimenting phase of filmmaking and want to shoot film as cheap as possible, I would suggest buying a projector and using a minidv or hdv camera to transfer the film yourself. The results will not be close to what you get for an HD transfer, however if something you shoot ends up being terrific and you want to enter it into festivals or do something important with it, you can always transfer again later.

I have been shooting 16mm, about 2 rolls a month testing my equipment and I didn't want to spend the 100's required for telecine just to be able to view my work. I bought an elmo 5 blade projector so that there wouldn't be a problem with the frequency of the camera, I'm not sure what is required for 8mm projection. If you have a 24p camcorder, you can use any projector. I shoot the projected image with my HDV sony camera and then in final cut I invert and color correct the picture.

Like I said it isn't near the quality you will get from a professional, however if you are like me and still learning, it is great to have a way to quickly view my work. You don't have to shoot reversal if you want to project it yourself. I shoot color negative all the time and it is quite easy to invert and set the color to the right levels.

You might not have a camcorder or projector but a projector can be found on ebay very cheap. It would be less than the cost to telecine 200 feet of film. Everyone has access to a digital camcorder in some form or another, I shoot HDV, but the projector, not the camcorder, is really the limiting factor for detail in this kind of setup.

You can get results which are very viewable with this method. It is not comparable to an HD telecine in quality or resolution.

I greatly overexposed this film so it is really light. It gives a good idea of what you can do with a projector.


Thanks for the tip! My Dad has a 16mm projector, and I have an HVX200a, so it can't hurt to try!
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#11 Will Montgomery

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Posted 31 August 2009 - 11:54 AM

Some telecine houses will do what they call a "camera check" and do one 100' roll for you just to make sure the camera is working properly. Check if there are any telecine houses in your city as a personal relationship is always best when you are are asking for free stuff.

Cheapest route is shoot reversal and project it. You can fine a surplus school 16mm projector for $30 on ebay.
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#12 Bruce Taylor

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Posted 31 August 2009 - 06:14 PM

Cheapest route is shoot reversal and project it.


I second that. I shot some 16mm Ektachrome a couple of years ago and put it up on my projector. I had forgotten how absolutely beautiful direct projection of camera original can be. Yes, exposure is critical, but why not get good at it?

Bruce Taylor
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#13 Evan Ferrario

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Posted 31 August 2009 - 07:52 PM

Hey Evan - that actually looks pretty good! It looks a lot smoother than most DIY telecine. Do you have a 24p camera and/or did you have to use any flicker removal plugins? Also, how large did you project the film while transferring? I've done that a few times myself but it didn't come out nearly as good as yours.


Thanks Jason.

I project it at about 2 feet wide. I capture it with a sony HRD-FX7 connected to a blackmagic HDMI capture card so I can skip the HDV compression. The 5 blade elmo projector is made to work with 30fps so I still shoot it at 1080i60 then converted it to 24p with compressor.

I get okay results after practicing a bit. Having properly exposed film and the proper iris setting on the camcorder are the most important factors, also the brighter the projected image, the better. I found the exposure on the camera is what you use to pull or push the film so it is nice to connect the camera to the computer and invert the image so I can see what I am doing.

I've gotten back a few more rolls of film and will post results of the transfer.
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#14 Evan Ferrario

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Posted 31 August 2009 - 08:00 PM

Thanks for the tip! My Dad has a 16mm projector, and I have an HVX200a, so it can't hurt to try!


Thats everything you need to do your own transfer. Shooting 24p on the HVX200 should illiminate any flicker. If you shoot color negative all you need to do is invert the footage and remove the blue hue that is added to the film.
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#15 Isaac Brooks

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 10:00 PM

I just got a Bolex, and I was very excited to start shooting, until I saw the prices and minimums of HD telecine. One lab told me they'd process a 100' roll for free, but the HD telecine would end up costing around $200!

Where can I get a good HD telecine, and not spend too much? I'd like to shoot a 100' roll of negative film.


Bryce,

Cine Lab in Fall River, MA has a 200 ft minimum for color negative. processing and maybe like a $75 minimum for transfer, but has good quality HD transfers for about
$ .27 per foot. Good telecine options in HD will always run you money, but Cine will do a good job for this sort preliminary work. Hope this is of help,

Isaac
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#16 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 10:31 PM

I just wanna throw my hat in and say shoot reversal and project. Once you can expose reversal really well than you can expose anything ;) It's what I learned on (B/w) back in my Bolex Days.

Or if you want to make an investment... and perhaps start up a "i'll scan you" mom and pop:

http://www.tobincinemasystems.com/
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#17 Oliver Christoph Kochs

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 06:14 PM

I have built a telecine from a Eiki projektor for 200 bucks.In S16 by the way. You just need to replace the bulb with a LED lamp. If you already own a decent DSRL it is not a big deal. Film it directly from the gate with a retro adaptor or bellows. I save all my money on standard def telecine and invest thst money in a positive print from the lab. But it still costs 100 bucks for 2 minutes (a 100ft roll). I am working on a single frame version in the near future but it needs time and work to actually get it to work.
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#18 Oliver Christoph Kochs

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 03:18 AM

Here 'Tis:
EIKI SUPER 16 TELECINE PROJECT (OR)

S16 Eiki Projector conversion is only a few steps:
Mill Gate to S16 Format, remove inner rail that is normally on audio track as well. Polish.
Mill Pressure Plate to S16 Format, remove inner rail that is normally on audio track as well. Polish.
(I failed in hitting the S16 frame. Now i see part of the next and previous image a little. But nevermind.)
Re-Center Lamp to the middle of the S16 frame.
Normally the projection lens does not tend to vignetting. But if so, you may need to change it too.

Thank you for watching.
Oliver
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#19 daniel silwerfeldt

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Posted 29 January 2011 - 05:00 PM

Hi Oliver, thanks alot for showing your "Telecine" 16mm projector.
What is the "retro adapter" I need to film the gate?

I have a Canon 5D mark II and it would be really cool to telecine my own stuff from my Bolex Super 16.
Could you tell me more exactly what I need to do this and have you worked out the single frame Raw thing yet.

I would love to be able to do that.

Cheers and thanks in advance!
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#20 Oliver Christoph Kochs

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 02:29 PM

RETRO ADAPTOR
I have used a bellows and a 100 ef canon macro lens. I just heard that you'd optically better go with a lens that doesn't focus to infinity as the ones from a photographic enlarger.

Single frame "scanning" is a totally different league. You can squeeze whatever megapixel out of your image and you can also preserve much more dynamic range.
Unfortunately it would take me a around 2000 bucks to make it work. Money that i don't have right now.
I'd need a mechanical S16 Bolex to tear apart, a Tobin Timelapse unit. A macro rig, LEDs, Timer Electronics for creating trigger delays and so on. Geeeeek!
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