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We want flicker


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#1 Mikael Lindström

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Posted 27 October 2009 - 04:19 PM

Hi all!!!
We´re currently shooting a drama for television here in Sweden using Arricam LT at 25fps 180d shutter normally. We have a scene coming up where we want as much flicker as possible. The scene will be shoot on a soccerfield with the existing large arenalightning. One of our main characters will go into sickness during the game and we would like to ramp the cameras shutter, still keeping 25fps, in the shot to create flicker as he gets dizzy. Our electricity here in sweden is at 50hz. Any suggestions to which shutter angle too use?

Thanks, Mikael Lindström, 1st AC.
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#2 Tom Hepburn

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Posted 27 October 2009 - 04:40 PM

Hi all!!!
We´re currently shooting a drama for television here in Sweden using Arricam LT at 25fps 180d shutter normally. We have a scene coming up where we want as much flicker as possible. The scene will be shoot on a soccerfield with the existing large arenalightning. One of our main characters will go into sickness during the game and we would like to ramp the cameras shutter, still keeping 25fps, in the shot to create flicker as he gets dizzy. Our electricity here in sweden is at 50hz. Any suggestions to which shutter angle too use?

Thanks, Mikael Lindström, 1st AC.


That is something I'd consider doing in post. The advantage being that you can try different levels and types of flicker without it being printed. For me, I'd like that flexibility.

Tom
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#3 Chris Keth

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Posted 27 October 2009 - 09:02 PM

That is something I'd consider doing in post. The advantage being that you can try different levels and types of flicker without it being printed. For me, I'd like that flexibility.

Tom


Especially without any testing.

What kind of lights are the stadium lights? Are they even a type that will flicker at any shutter angle at 25fps?
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#4 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 27 October 2009 - 10:43 PM

Especially without any testing.

What kind of lights are the stadium lights? Are they even a type that will flicker at any shutter angle at 25fps?


Pretty hard to get flicker with 50 hz lighting at 25 fps, at any shutter angle... you'd be better off switching to a slightly off-speed, preferably non-crystal too.
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#5 Jake Kerber

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Posted 27 October 2009 - 10:46 PM

Going off the A.C. Manual diagram, I'd conclude that anything between 120 and 150 degrees or 210 and 240 degrees.

However, who really knows without testing under your specific circumstances.

Good luck.

Edited by Jake Kerber, 27 October 2009 - 10:49 PM.

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#6 Chris Keth

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Posted 28 October 2009 - 01:51 AM

Going off the A.C. Manual diagram, I'd conclude that anything between 120 and 150 degrees or 210 and 240 degrees.

However, who really knows without testing under your specific circumstances.

Good luck.


What kind of light source are we talking about?
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#7 Jake Kerber

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Posted 28 October 2009 - 10:13 AM

What kind of light source are we talking about?


The shutter angles I mentioned are for a discharge source (metal halide, sodium vapor) running off 50hz power with 100 pulses per second. However,
like David Mullen mentioned, it might be difficult to generate flicker at 25fps and 50hz--the angles I posted are not the 'safest,' but a different fps combined
with a non-safe shutter angle would be the best combo to get flicker. Or if he could manipulate the power frequency of the stadium lights, but I doubt that's possible under his circumstances.
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#8 Edgar Dubrovskiy

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Posted 28 October 2009 - 02:53 PM

Shot HMIs at 29fps in UK (50Hz) - very nasty flickering look.
And for non-sync episodes the speed change is not that drastic.
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#9 Mikael Lindström

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Posted 28 October 2009 - 02:56 PM

We´ll do some tests ourself, I was interested about your opinion beforehand to be in the ballpark once we get to testshoots. Lights used at the arena are discharge sources at 50hz. I think something like 29fps at 172d can do the trick. The thing is, we would like to keep the sync sound. I will keep you updated.

Best regards, Mikael Lindström.
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#10 John Sprung

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 01:03 AM

The thing is, we would like to keep the sync sound.


In that case, the first advice is best. Shoot normally, make your flicker in post. Shooting 50 Hz lighting at 25 fps won't flicker for you at any shutter angle.




-- J.S.
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