Jump to content


Photo

Experienced photographer new to Super 8 - HELP!


  • Please log in to reply
9 replies to this topic

#1 Darren Williams

Darren Williams

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 8 posts
  • Camera Operator

Posted 09 November 2009 - 04:12 PM

Hi all,

I'm glad I found this forum. I'm new to super 8 and am about to get my hands on a Braun Nizo 156 macro II.

Could someone tell me whether I should buy a battery for the light meter, and if so, where should I buy one from? I mean, could I just insert film and point and shoot?


How do you meter for a super 8 camera? Incident or spot or am I just asking a stupid question?

What is the best film to buy for this camera? Is it based on ASA/ISO system and can this be understood in the same way as 35mm still camera or is S8 different?

Where is the best place to get my film from, and processed in the UK.

Thanks in advance ...
  • 0

#2 Bryce Lansing

Bryce Lansing
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 73 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 09 November 2009 - 05:23 PM

I too have a background in 35mm photography, and have started to shoot motion picture film. I have a bolex 16mm camera, so it may differ slightly from your S8, but as far as exposure, it should be the similar.

When shooting stills, I always get good results from my spot meter. Even when I take my spot reading on a light skin tone without opening up, it's still good. My incident readings give me shots that look at least a stop over exposed.

On my Bolex, it was rather different. The shots I exposed with an incident reading looked perfect, and the ones I took from a spot reading looked under exposed. I don't know why this is, but after my first test, I now know to always go off my incident reading, even if my spot reading is telling me to stop down two more stops.

I use the same meter for both, a Sekonic 608 cine meter. For the photos I use the normal shutterspeeds, for the Bolex I used the frame rate (24fps) that I was shooting at, and the shutter angle 110 degrees (133 degree bolex shutter minus the 1/3 stop taken from the prism).
  • 0

#3 Darren Williams

Darren Williams

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 8 posts
  • Camera Operator

Posted 10 November 2009 - 04:28 PM

I too have a background in 35mm photography, and have started to shoot motion picture film. I have a bolex 16mm camera, so it may differ slightly from your S8, but as far as exposure, it should be the similar.

When shooting stills, I always get good results from my spot meter. Even when I take my spot reading on a light skin tone without opening up, it's still good. My incident readings give me shots that look at least a stop over exposed.

On my Bolex, it was rather different. The shots I exposed with an incident reading looked perfect, and the ones I took from a spot reading looked under exposed. I don't know why this is, but after my first test, I now know to always go off my incident reading, even if my spot reading is telling me to stop down two more stops.

I use the same meter for both, a Sekonic 608 cine meter. For the photos I use the normal shutterspeeds, for the Bolex I used the frame rate (24fps) that I was shooting at, and the shutter angle 110 degrees (133 degree bolex shutter minus the 1/3 stop taken from the prism).


Thank you for getting back to me. This helps.

It has also opened me up to a whole new world of things I don't understand ... lol.

When exposing 35mm stils you take into account ISO/ASA, shutter speed and aperture. How do you meter for a cine camera? Do you know of a good web page that could go through the basics?

Also I have a sekonic but it is for a stills camera. Is there a way of converting?
  • 0

#4 kevin jackman

kevin jackman
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 350 posts
  • Other

Posted 12 November 2009 - 08:11 AM

Thank you for getting back to me. This helps.

It has also opened me up to a whole new world of things I don't understand ... lol.

When exposing 35mm stils you take into account ISO/ASA, shutter speed and aperture. How do you meter for a cine camera? Do you know of a good web page that could go through the basics?

Also I have a sekonic but it is for a stills camera. Is there a way of converting?


typically cine cameras are a 60th of a second if i remember correctly, however the bolex reflex for example is an 80th sue to the prism. i would try to find a manual to find out what your shutter speed is at 24fps. luckily i have a lightmeter that you can dial in the fps , asa and shutter angle. its bloodt amazing. as or your spot meter only use that to figure out what the lattitude of your scene is and to help decide what you want to be bright or dark. incident meters are your friend here. neg is the best for flexability, depends what you want though.
  • 0

#5 Dan Salzmann

Dan Salzmann
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1143 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Paris, France

Posted 12 November 2009 - 10:18 AM

typically cine cameras are a 60th of a second if i remember correctly, however the bolex reflex for example is an 80th sue to the prism. i would try to find a manual to find out what your shutter speed is at 24fps. luckily i have a lightmeter that you can dial in the fps , asa and shutter angle. its bloodt amazing. as or your spot meter only use that to figure out what the lattitude of your scene is and to help decide what you want to be bright or dark. incident meters are your friend here. neg is the best for flexability, depends what you want though.


Cine cameras are typically 1/48th of a second which is usually rounded off to 1/50th. Negative film does offer the most latitude but exposure for super8 does require precision since the format is so small.
  • 0

#6 Darren Williams

Darren Williams

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 8 posts
  • Camera Operator

Posted 12 November 2009 - 03:32 PM

Cine cameras are typically 1/48th of a second which is usually rounded off to 1/50th. Negative film does offer the most latitude but exposure for super8 does require precision since the format is so small.


Great ... thank you both. It's starting to make sense now! I can't afford a cine meter but I can do the maths (I think). Just need to load some film into the thing first.

Am I correct in assuming that 50ft of film will give me somewhere between 3 - 4 minutes of filming at 18fps? It's very short! Can you buy film of longer lengths?
  • 0

#7 Steve Phipps

Steve Phipps
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 59 posts
  • Other

Posted 13 November 2009 - 07:26 AM

Hello.

I can't afford a cine meter but I can do the maths (I think). Just need to load some film into the thing first.

Any meter that is accurate should be fine. As far as doing the math, it shouldn't be too bad, since you will only have a couple of exposure choices. As mentioned, a manual for your camera will be useful, and should have the exposure information you want. In my experience, Nizo Owner's Manuals are very good.

Shooting a test-roll will be useful (essential, if you've never used the camera before). Do that thing still-photographers sometimes do when they aren't sure about an exposure: bracket. Find or make a nice scene with a range of black-medium grey-white, run off twenty seconds at your best guess, then open up a stop for twenty seconds, then go back and drop down a stop for twenty seconds. Shoot the same scene under the same conditions at the same time, of course. I wouldn't mention it, but I've just seen so many occasions of people trying to compare exposed apples to exposed oranges.

Am I correct in assuming that 50ft of film will give me somewhere between 3 - 4 minutes of filming at 18fps? It's very short! Can you buy film of longer lengths?

18 fps a little more than 3 min
24 fps about 2½ min

Longer film lengths is a trick question. For your Nizo, the answer is "Always No". But a 200-foot cartridge was made (discontinued), which some cameras could take. And there are also some high-line Beaulieu cameras that will take a custom magazine (also discontinued now).
  • 0

#8 Darren Williams

Darren Williams

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 8 posts
  • Camera Operator

Posted 13 November 2009 - 02:07 PM

Hello.


Any meter that is accurate should be fine. As far as doing the math, it shouldn't be too bad, since you will only have a couple of exposure choices. As mentioned, a manual for your camera will be useful, and should have the exposure information you want. In my experience, Nizo Owner's Manuals are very good.

Shooting a test-roll will be useful (essential, if you've never used the camera before). Do that thing still-photographers sometimes do when they aren't sure about an exposure: bracket. Find or make a nice scene with a range of black-medium grey-white, run off twenty seconds at your best guess, then open up a stop for twenty seconds, then go back and drop down a stop for twenty seconds. Shoot the same scene under the same conditions at the same time, of course. I wouldn't mention it, but I've just seen so many occasions of people trying to compare exposed apples to exposed oranges.


18 fps a little more than 3 min
24 fps about 2½ min

Longer film lengths is a trick question. For your Nizo, the answer is "Always No". But a 200-foot cartridge was made (discontinued), which some cameras could take. And there are also some high-line Beaulieu cameras that will take a custom magazine (also discontinued now).


Thanks Steve, I'll have to dig my meter out and bracket ...
  • 0

#9 Rick Palidwor

Rick Palidwor
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 407 posts
  • Director

Posted 14 November 2009 - 02:38 PM

Could someone tell me whether I should buy a battery for the light meter, and if so, where should I buy one from? I mean, could I just insert film and point and shoot?


From scanning this thread I don't think anyone addressed the battery question. Whether you use the external or internal meter, you probably need the battery for the internal meter because manual exposure control will probably not work without it. At least that is the case with many cameras. Check this easily by turning the manual exposure dial. If the needle moves, your okay, if not, you need the battery. And if the internal meter works, why not expose based on that in your tests. You may not need the external meter after all.
Rick
  • 0

#10 Darren Williams

Darren Williams

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 8 posts
  • Camera Operator

Posted 14 November 2009 - 02:57 PM

From scanning this thread I don't think anyone addressed the battery question. Whether you use the external or internal meter, you probably need the battery for the internal meter because manual exposure control will probably not work without it. At least that is the case with many cameras. Check this easily by turning the manual exposure dial. If the needle moves, your okay, if not, you need the battery. And if the internal meter works, why not expose based on that in your tests. You may not need the external meter after all.
Rick


Hi,

Thank you (and again thank you all).

some super tri-x b&W was delivered this morning ... I shoved it in along with 4 batteries. I noticed that the internal meter was flicking up and down the scale (before starting to film) - hadn't noticed the in-viewfinder meter before so thanks. Cutting a long story short, I test shot using practically every setting on the camera (not many compared to my DSLR) ....

I'm looking forward to the results ....

So, thank you all for helping a newbie ... everything makes as much sense as it possibly can at this moment .... thanks
  • 0


Opal

Aerial Filmworks

FJS International, LLC

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

CineLab

CineTape

Tai Audio

Paralinx LLC

rebotnix Technologies

Glidecam

Ritter Battery

Visual Products

Abel Cine

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Metropolis Post

Rig Wheels Passport

The Slider

Technodolly

Willys Widgets

Wooden Camera

Ritter Battery

Rig Wheels Passport

Aerial Filmworks

Technodolly

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Wooden Camera

Metropolis Post

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

CineLab

rebotnix Technologies

Willys Widgets

Glidecam

Visual Products

Paralinx LLC

CineTape

FJS International, LLC

Opal

The Slider

Abel Cine

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Tai Audio