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#1 jonathan hell

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Posted 23 November 2009 - 07:17 AM

Hi guys,

I use this list made with excel when I work as data wrangler/2nd AC

http://dl.free.fr/ge...?file=/Ei8culur

click on "télécharger le fichier"

I'm looking forward your comments ;)

You can organise your list according to what you want to see.
For example, Scene 14 on one of mine previous project

Enjoy the download
:P

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#2 Rob Vogt

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Posted 23 November 2009 - 09:08 AM

Usually I would download the footage at the end of the day, so when I go from day to day I'd have a new "mag number." Also that would mean I'd start a new camera report each day. Also I'd try to record lens height, not just focal distance. I use the camera reports from camerasstantmanual.com. I was on a shoot I was seconding where I didn't know the script or anything that was happening, I was loading the SR3 and going back and forth doing the camera reports. We had to shoot a scene, then shoot the exact same scene with a different actor, so if I didn't record lens height they would've had to just guess the rest of the shoot. It was made especially annoying because they would do long takes and basically shoot the whole mag in one or two takes so I'd have to run to the office I had my tent in and load, run back get the camera info, then go back and file away the rolls. Then come back to slate, and have to do the same thing again. We shot 14 rolls in the 7 and a half hour day.
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#3 Chris Keth

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Posted 23 November 2009 - 03:03 PM

One nice thing you can try to do with these is make them fit on a folded over 8-1/2"x11" sheet of paper. That size will tape to the back of a slate neatly.

Here's my RED camera report, so you can see what I mean on sizing.
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#4 jonathan hell

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Posted 25 November 2009 - 02:19 AM

Usually I would download the footage at the end of the day, so when I go from day to day I'd have a new "mag number." Also that would mean I'd start a new camera report each day. Also I'd try to record lens height, not just focal distance. I use the camera reports from camerasstantmanual.com. I was on a shoot I was seconding where I didn't know the script or anything that was happening, I was loading the SR3 and going back and forth doing the camera reports. We had to shoot a scene, then shoot the exact same scene with a different actor, so if I didn't record lens height they would've had to just guess the rest of the shoot. It was made especially annoying because they would do long takes and basically shoot the whole mag in one or two takes so I'd have to run to the office I had my tent in and load, run back get the camera info, then go back and file away the rolls. Then come back to slate, and have to do the same thing again. We shot 14 rolls in the 7 and a half hour day.


Usually I use 2/3 mag per day. I download the data when I have 20/30Go if I can. I don't really trust the harddrive.
It's good thing to take the measure of the lens height. I usually do that only when I know that will be useful.
Anyway, I thing I can put this on the sheet...
Cheers
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#5 jonathan hell

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Posted 25 November 2009 - 02:28 AM

One nice thing you can try to do with these is make them fit on a folded over 8-1/2"x11" sheet of paper. That size will tape to the back of a slate neatly.

Here's my RED camera report, so you can see what I mean on sizing.



That's a good idea, but I fix the slate to my belt. I think after few minutes, the camera sheet won't be very easy to use. Specially if I run everywhere.
I use a simple notebook during the shoot, and I transfer it at the end of the day in the computer during the download.
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#6 Tom Mitchell

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 06:42 PM

With red and film for drama you should take similar notes. things like focal distance lens height are good to note down as you maybe asked when you to the reverse.

as a good loader you should be making a mental note of distance and height and lens size, so when you to the reverse you know can predict that they will most likely be the same. and you have have the camera in position and with the correct lens on it before the dop even asks for it or at least have it in your hand ready to go, that's what makes you a cut above the rest!! But as far as putting on the sheets i would only do it, if requested of for a vfx shot. i might wright it down in my pocket book if i find i getting asked alot.

as far as film and RED i would proably still use film sheets as a template but on red instead of howmainy feet shot i would put the clip number, but the rest of the details should be the same. Slate, take, clip, lens, Tstop, filters etc.

Usually I would download the footage at the end of the day,


This really alarms me that you said that, you should reload after shoot about 10mins of footage about 20gb on the RED as you would with film. all the time it is on the camera that's the only place it is. if the drive is dropped or damaged you lost a whole day. You sould also back it up in a min of two places.

you should have a DIT to do this. they can also advice you on how usable any questionable footage is within minutes of shooting it.

otherwise you could be playing a very dangerous game. you might have gotten away with it until now. but the day you don't will be your last. In film you should play it safe always and never be the kinda guy who likes to gamble.

I been on several productions where we have had loads of 16GB CF cards. this forces you to reload after about 12mins of footage and gives you a lighter smaller camera.
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#7 Michael Kubaszak

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 07:25 PM

With red and film for drama you should take similar notes. things like focal distance lens height are good to note down as you maybe asked when you to the reverse.

as a good loader you should be making a mental note of distance and height and lens size, so when you to the reverse you know can predict that they will most likely be the same. and you have have the camera in position and with the correct lens on it before the dop even asks for it or at least have it in your hand ready to go, that's what makes you a cut above the rest!! But as far as putting on the sheets i would only do it, if requested of for a vfx shot. i might wright it down in my pocket book if i find i getting asked alot.

as far as film and RED i would proably still use film sheets as a template but on red instead of howmainy feet shot i would put the clip number, but the rest of the details should be the same. Slate, take, clip, lens, Tstop, filters etc.



This really alarms me that you said that, you should reload after shoot about 10mins of footage about 20gb on the RED as you would with film. all the time it is on the camera that's the only place it is. if the drive is dropped or damaged you lost a whole day. You sould also back it up in a min of two places.

you should have a DIT to do this. they can also advice you on how usable any questionable footage is within minutes of shooting it.

otherwise you could be playing a very dangerous game. you might have gotten away with it until now. but the day you don't will be your last. In film you should play it safe always and never be the kinda guy who likes to gamble.

I been on several productions where we have had loads of 16GB CF cards. this forces you to reload after about 12mins of footage and gives you a lighter smaller camera.





As a loader why would one care about lens distance, size, and height????

I agree that you should be dumping footage more than once per day depending on how much you're shooting and the length of the shoot. Usually I'll do a dump at lunch and than at the end if there is no DIT which you don't really need if you know what you're doing and the RED software is pretty self explanatory. Check sums and make copies, done.
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#8 Mike Panczenko

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Posted 07 January 2010 - 12:09 AM

As a loader why would one care about lens distance, size, and height????


On a feature/episodic it is the 2nd ACs job to log the lens distance, size, height, stop, filtration,etc, so that when doing coverage or pickups- even months after the shoot is over, it can be recreated and/or matched. The log books are very important, especially on VFX heavy films. 9 shots out of 10 won't need to be matched, but when you get that one that does, it is very important to have the info written down.

On a job where the loader is also the 2nd- commercial and music video world- he would be expected to pick up the slack.

But... on the same token, on a commercial/music video you would not usually keep a log book. It is only for long term projects usually. On a camera report, I will usually write the stop, focal length, filtration, and any unusual settings- off speed or non 180 shutter. Everything else that must be recorded I'll put in the log book. I wouldn't put specific sections for lens distance/size/height on a report. Just a general "info" section.
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#9 Michael Kubaszak

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Posted 07 January 2010 - 12:41 AM

He didn't say 2nd AC. He said loader. A 2nd should be keeping track of all that stuff. But a feature or episodic would usually have a 1st, 2nd and a loader besides the ultra low budget.
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#10 Mike Panczenko

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Posted 07 January 2010 - 10:42 AM

No, it's not really the loader's job to do that. I was just saying that on short term without a dedicated loader- where the 2nd also loads, they would be expected to do the same thing, at least making mental notes of millimeter, etc. But then they are really a 2nd. Don't get me started on how many times the UPM will hire people and say, "We have a 1st and a loader, no 2nd..." It's a total misunderstanding of the camera dept.
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#11 Tom Mitchell

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Posted 07 January 2010 - 09:20 PM

No, it's not really the loader's job to do that. I was just saying that on short term without a dedicated loader- where the 2nd also loads, they would be expected to do the same thing, at least making mental notes of millimeter, etc. But then they are really a 2nd. Don't get me started on how many times the UPM will hire people and say, "We have a 1st and a loader, no 2nd..." It's a total misunderstanding of the camera dept.


yes when I was talking about being a loader I meant 2nd. on small productions in the uk we will have a 2nd and a trainee the 2nd will also be a loader (clapper loader) the trainee will stand in to do board and notes whilst the 2nd is off reloading.

loader is often referred to the shortened 'clapper loader' and central loader as a dedicated loader.

on bigger shoots we will have a central loader and separate 2nd AC for each camera a trainee to do mag and battery runs etc.
sorry for the miss communication.

so yes it is the 2nd AC who should be taking down the notes. (who could also be the loader)

As a loader why would one care about lens distance, size, and height????

I agree that you should be dumping footage more than once per day depending on how much you're shooting and the length of the shoot. Usually I'll do a dump at lunch and than at the end if there is no DIT which you don't really need if you know what you're doing and the RED software is pretty self explanatory. Check sums and make copies, done.


Agreed you dont always need a DIT in the full meaning of what a DIT is (as supposed to some one transferring files or red tec) the Red is now a fairly stable camera though is still get the odd curve ball and you still need some one who can fix it, and you should have some one checking and watching the footage on set. checking for overexposure, dropped frames etc.

I also do extensive data report sheets also as a DIT I do a visual report on exposure and grading notes, dpx files etc. please read up a DIT it not someone who transfer files but is quite a highly qualified role.

the difference with film is that you can scratch a few feet its just a few feet, ok yes you can flash a mag. but if a drive goes wrong it's often all gone not just some. witch is why it is important to do regular reloads; And because you can chose when you can reload you don't have to hold the shoot up by doing it at inconvenient moments but rather between setups. I worked on some big scale productions. I know if it was a chose between me and some one who reloads twice a day, I'm the one there going to trust.

I noticed this lack of respect for digital and I think it's plain sloppy. as with film cameras you should carry spare cables card readers check the gate and look after the rushes. I don't know if this is born out of laziness or ignorance for the format. but it led to some really stupid and very avoidable mistakes.

I Realy know the redone system and I know that if treated right it a great little camera. but it can also easily all go so badly wrong. and i have a few panicked people on the phone to me because they just don't cover them selves....

long story short reload often it's not hard, if there no reason not to do it, then do it!

again with notes there's no need to go over board but if every bit of extra information you can keep just makes you better at your job. it's fine if you don't think that's right (though if your asked to do it by your boss i strongly suggest you do it). but i can tell you as much as its important that you get along with the people you work with its also the little things like that, that impress and keep you landing the jobs.

I know it says on my profile I'm a DIT (not just red tec) I'm also a 2nd AC.

looking forward to your thoughts
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#12 Marque DeWinter

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Posted 31 January 2010 - 09:23 AM

I'm attaching the general forms I use as PDFs. They hare formatted to fit two sizes. one is an acetate clipboard that fits on the back of a slate (velcro) and the other is the summons clipboards. They include more space for additional information than many others. Prints two to a page. Feel free to use it as you wish just please keep the copyright attached as I went through a lot of working to get the copyright.

~Marque


Attached File  cam_report_11.pdf   29.12KB   362 downloads
Attached File  cam_report_10.pdf   29.8KB   242 downloads
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#13 Paul Bruening

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Posted 31 January 2010 - 04:25 PM

Well, if we're gonna have a camera report-off then here's my entry:

The space in the upper left hand corner is where you put your production company info. This covers all the stuff that I was concerned about. I wanted more information about the film like where I bought it (short ends, you know) and more info about how it was shot. You print them out and get someone like Office Max's print shop to chop them in half.

I've got the same thing in Illustrator files if you prefer more control over the doc. or prefer to get the file turned into NCR, multi-copy reports.

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Rig Wheels Passport