Jump to content


Photo

film resoloution image quality


  • Please log in to reply
23 replies to this topic

#1 RAJENDRA BISWAS

RAJENDRA BISWAS
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 84 posts
  • Other
  • india

Posted 25 November 2009 - 04:37 AM

does image quality if film dpeend on the size of the film like 35mm or 120,70mm ,in photograhy world 120 film creates higher resolution rpovides used witha good lens,,so is the lens important for film size,is shooting in 70mm any different than 35mm...is 70mm just amedium to blowup for imax or there is ahigher image quality
  • 0

#2 Chris Millar

Chris Millar
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1642 posts
  • Other

Posted 25 November 2009 - 05:24 AM

There is no cine 120 - 70mm is a projection format, 65mm is the acquisition format associated with it - all things being equal yes it is higher res - yes you'll need special lenses for it, ones with a larger image circle or 'coverage' - 70mm much more expensive in terms of stock, processing, scanning and heavier rarer cameras etc...

For various reasons sometimes people shoot 35mm and blow up to 70mm - sometimes people shoot 65mm or vistavision and reduce to 35mm - and then all that IMAX carry on too - but for now dont let this bog down your understanding ...

I dont think I answered all your questions - ha ha - oops
  • 0

#3 Adrian Sierkowski

Adrian Sierkowski
  • Sustaining Members
  • 7118 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles, Ca

Posted 25 November 2009 - 06:44 AM

The main difference in those films is the grain. The image is "decreased" less to fit on 120mm as opposed to 35mm still film so it's size in relation to the grain on the film is different. And we then later will enlarge this "recorded" image to view it, it is again enlarged less off of the 120mm film, which means the grain is enlarged less. And this grain enlargement is what changes our perception of resolution; even if we're using the same film in both the 120mm camera and the 35mm camera (say TriX for stills people).

In motion pictures it's the same idea with 8/16/35/65(70). You are enlarging and reducing the world less as you move up that scale, and the recorded image is "larger" in relation to the grain of the film as you move up and down. That's the simple way to think about it.

Now shooting 70mm (which as mentioned is really 65) has many other considerations, primarily cost, but also Depth of Field, lenses, camera size etc.
  • 0

#4 RAJENDRA BISWAS

RAJENDRA BISWAS
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 84 posts
  • Other
  • india

Posted 26 November 2009 - 12:33 PM

ron frickes movies are 70mm do people din a difference in the visaul quality is a difference between 35mm and 70 visible in tv
  • 0

#5 Brian Drysdale

Brian Drysdale
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 5070 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 26 November 2009 - 12:53 PM

I suspect it might be difficult to do direct comparisons because they currently don't shoot features on 65mm. Although films like "Lawrence of Arabia" do look cleaner than their contemporary films even on SD, although with modern stocks on SD you mightn't notice a difference, however on HD the 65mm may look slightly better. 70mm is really a big screen format and HD is supposed to be similar to 35mm prints.

In the end it will depend on the chain, chances are for TV, the 70mm road show productions will have been reduced to 35mm for the transfer to video.
  • 0

#6 John Holland

John Holland
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2250 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • London England

Posted 26 November 2009 - 12:56 PM

Hey most people who watch the TV , cant see any difference between 8mm and 70mm , their TVs are so badly set up over bright ,way do much contrast ,over saturated !! The general viewing public are stupid !!! sad but true !!
  • 0

#7 John Salim

John Salim
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 182 posts
  • Other
  • Essex, UK

Posted 26 November 2009 - 03:50 PM

The main difference in those films is the grain. The image is "decreased" less to fit on 120mm as opposed to 35mm still film so it's size in relation to the grain on the film is different. And we then later will enlarge this "recorded" image to view it, it is again enlarged less off of the 120mm film, which means the grain is enlarged less. And this grain enlargement is what changes our perception of resolution; even if we're using the same film in both the 120mm camera and the 35mm camera (say TriX for stills people).

Can I just correct the grammer for 120 'stills' film.
120 film is actually 64mm wide, and for some reason even some labs call it 120mm format. :rolleyes:

John S
  • 0

#8 John Sprung

John Sprung
  • Sustaining Members
  • 4635 posts
  • Other

Posted 27 November 2009 - 02:46 AM

... however on HD the 65mm may look slightly better. .


Does anybody know of a 65mm originated film that's been telecined to HD? It would be interesting to see how big the difference is.



-- J.S.
  • 0

#9 Michel Hafner

Michel Hafner
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 300 posts
  • Other

Posted 27 November 2009 - 11:17 AM

Does anybody know of a 65mm originated film that's been telecined to HD? It would be interesting to see how big the difference is.

-- J.S.

Blu Rays:
Baraka (70mm 8K scan), IMAX parts of Dark Knight and Transformers 2, Grand Canyon (IMAX 8K scan), How the West Was Won (3 times 2K scan of Cinerama), The Searchers (Vistavision), North by Northwest (Vistavision)
  • 0

#10 Adrian Sierkowski

Adrian Sierkowski
  • Sustaining Members
  • 7118 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles, Ca

Posted 27 November 2009 - 11:30 AM

Can I just correct the grammer for 120 'stills' film.
120 film is actually 64mm wide, and for some reason even some labs call it 120mm format. :rolleyes:

John S


Quite true. Force of habit on the "mm" designation I suppose. Didn't know 120 was 64mm though.
  • 0

#11 Robert Houllahan

Robert Houllahan
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1585 posts
  • Industry Rep
  • Providence R.I.

Posted 28 November 2009 - 03:08 AM

Does anybody know of a 65mm originated film that's been telecined to HD? It would be interesting to see how big the difference is.



-- J.S.



I have seen Imax scanned to 6K and downressed to for display on a Pioneer Kuro 50" for a baselight demo did it look better? f**k yeah, the better the item you stuff in the little box the better it looks. I find it funny that most comparisons between D-Cine cams and film are usually made with the worst film formats like 3-perf or whatever practically the smallest negative possible. But when you see older film like "to catch a theif" like I did last night on my mom's 20" crap crt from cable they look better than any of these garbage "modern" formats. So much for progress and not for nothin stocks have not advanced that much since that film was made they just need less light.

Want more? cut a bigger film cloth...

-Rob-
  • 0

#12 RAJENDRA BISWAS

RAJENDRA BISWAS
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 84 posts
  • Other
  • india

Posted 28 November 2009 - 12:49 PM

does 65mm film capture more detail and information...
  • 0

#13 RAJENDRA BISWAS

RAJENDRA BISWAS
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 84 posts
  • Other
  • india

Posted 28 November 2009 - 12:51 PM

Can I just correct the grammer for 120 'stills' film.
120 film is actually 64mm wide, and for some reason even some labs call it 120mm format. :rolleyes:

John S


but 120 comes in category of large format..
  • 0

#14 David Mullen ASC

David Mullen ASC
  • Sustaining Members
  • 19769 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 28 November 2009 - 02:42 PM

does 65mm film capture more detail and information...


Sure... if you think of detail in terms of lines per millimeter, if you have more overall millimeters, you have more overall lines.
  • 0

#15 Glen Alexander

Glen Alexander
  • Guests

Posted 28 November 2009 - 05:05 PM

does 65mm film capture more detail and information...


it depends on how much you want to spend and what film stock you shoot on.

i scanned my VistaVision film at 78 lp/mm and it crushes any 4-, 3-, or 2-perf, only IMAX resolution comes close. i am only limited by the grain of my film.

Edited by Glen Alexander, 28 November 2009 - 05:06 PM.

  • 0

#16 Charles MacDonald

Charles MacDonald
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1157 posts
  • Other
  • Stittsville Ontario Canada

Posted 28 November 2009 - 07:44 PM

but 120 comes in category of large format..

While 120 film would be a large format in the Movie world, it is only considered medium format in the still world. 8 by 10 Inch is large format! 120 film produces images about 60mm wide, and they can be 9, 6 or 4.5 cm long on older cameras, with some newer (like from the 1960 era) shooting 6X7cm
  • 0

#17 Chris Millar

Chris Millar
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1642 posts
  • Other

Posted 28 November 2009 - 08:32 PM

While 120 film would be a large format in the Movie world, it is only considered medium format in the still world. 8 by 10 Inch is large format! 120 film produces images about 60mm wide, and they can be 9, 6 or 4.5 cm long on older cameras, with some newer (like from the 1960 era) shooting 6X7cm



Some panoramic 120 ratios are considered 'large format' - especially once their diagonal dimension exceeds that of 4x5 ;) - You could exceed the total area if you wanted...

But yes, 645, 6x6, 6x7, 6x8, 6x9 = medium format
  • 0

#18 RAJENDRA BISWAS

RAJENDRA BISWAS
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 84 posts
  • Other
  • india

Posted 29 November 2009 - 12:35 AM

Some panoramic 120 ratios are considered 'large format' - especially once their diagonal dimension exceeds that of 4x5 ;) - You could exceed the total area if you wanted...

But yes, 645, 6x6, 6x7, 6x8, 6x9 = medium format



thats why its called mamiya 645 :) i guess... but does the lense does the amgic or the film coz, cameras like holga do take good pictures but ti limited by plastic lense
  • 0

#19 Chris Millar

Chris Millar
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1642 posts
  • Other

Posted 29 November 2009 - 12:52 AM

thats why its called mamiya 645 :) i guess... but does the lense does the amgic or the film coz, cameras like holga do take good pictures but ti limited by plastic lense


Yes - Rollei SL66, Mamiya RX67, Fuji GSW690 etc...

Both lens and film are factors - the main factor involved is the photographer

Film size has a relationship with the lenses themselves - for example:

Larger formats tend to have relatively slower lenses for the same FOV in a smaller format
It might sound contradictory but larger formats tend to have smaller DOF for the same FOV

etc...

Snore.

Can we talk about lighting ?
  • 0

#20 Chris Millar

Chris Millar
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1642 posts
  • Other

Posted 29 November 2009 - 12:59 AM

oops

RZ67
  • 0


Ritter Battery

Abel Cine

FJS International, LLC

Rig Wheels Passport

Glidecam

Opal

Aerial Filmworks

Visual Products

Technodolly

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

The Slider

Paralinx LLC

rebotnix Technologies

Tai Audio

CineTape

Wooden Camera

Willys Widgets

Metropolis Post

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Broadcast Solutions Inc

CineLab

rebotnix Technologies

FJS International, LLC

Visual Products

Rig Wheels Passport

The Slider

Ritter Battery

Opal

Technodolly

Metropolis Post

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Tai Audio

CineLab

Wooden Camera

Glidecam

Paralinx LLC

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Abel Cine

CineTape

Willys Widgets

Aerial Filmworks