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super 8 scan to 2k


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#1 Tomasz Kucharski

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Posted 29 November 2009 - 01:53 AM

Dear Sir/Madam

I'm looking for company which can super8 scan to 2K? I have ca. 150m (ca. 5 minutes) after color development positiv super8 tape.

Please, help me. Where, the best in Europe, but if only in another continents is it, ok, must be.

Best wishes
Tom
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#2 Kent Kumpula

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Posted 29 November 2009 - 08:21 PM

Why does it have to be 2k? I really don´t think there is anything to gain compared to a 720p transfer, except for a higher pricetag. And most definetly you won´t find any more image details on a 2k compared to a 1080p transfer (I believe that 1080p ia already overkill for the tiny framesize on super8 film).
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#3 Tomasz Kucharski

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Posted 30 November 2009 - 04:31 PM

Why does it have to be 2k? I really don´t think there is anything to gain compared to a 720p transfer, except for a higher pricetag. And most definetly you won´t find any more image details on a 2k compared to a 1080p transfer (I believe that 1080p ia already overkill for the tiny framesize on super8 film).


This short super8 is a part of full lenght movie. And the best quality is more important for me. All movie we want skan to 2k. But is hard to find a company which skanning super8 to 2k. Thank you for answer.
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#4 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 30 November 2009 - 05:34 PM

2K is about the size of 1080p


1920 for 1080 v 2048 of 2K

(HD measures vertical resolution (1080) whereas film is horizontal (e.g. 2048))
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#5 Tomasz Kucharski

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Posted 30 November 2009 - 06:31 PM

2K is about the size of 1080p


1920 for 1080 v 2048 of 2K

(HD measures vertical resolution (1080) whereas film is horizontal (e.g. 2048))



If D.o.P. and Director would accept that quality, with your help, I've had a solution. Thanks for all.
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#6 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 30 November 2009 - 07:03 PM

Quite welcome. Good luck.
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#7 Kent Kumpula

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Posted 30 November 2009 - 07:27 PM

Lets play with some numbers!

A super8 frame is about 4mm high. Transferred to 720p you would get a vertical resolution of 720 pixels (obviously). And a 35mm filmframe (regular 35mm, not super35) has a frame that is about 16mm high. Transferred to the highest HD resolution (not going to 2K), you would get 1080 pixels of vertical resolution.

Now... the 35mm frame is 4 times larger vertically. If we calculate how high the resolution on the 8mm transfer would be compared to a transfer from 35mm film we would have to duplicate the 720p resolution 4 times, right? That would give you 2880 pixels on a 35mm framesize. So the 720p transfer from 8mm film is pretty darn high, considering the framesize.
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#8 Chris Durham

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 01:03 PM

Kent, you're comparing 8mm to 35mm on one end, but then you seem to be equating 35mm to 1080. I think most DPs with the budget would do a 4k DI. 4K is 4096 × 3112 I think. Round vertical resolution to 3k then, and round the height of an 8mm frame to 1/4 that of a 35mm frame and you get 750, so you could say that 720 is roughly equivalent (just slightly less than) to a 4k scan of 35mm.

But of course film is more than just resolution. Ask what's the resolution of film? What's the resolution of 35mm? You'll get varying answers depending on many factors, not least of which is the stock. 4K is just an acceptable scanning resolution, I think most DPs will agree that it doesn't capture the richness of film. I've heard some say 6k would be more ideal, I've even heard 8K. Of course we don't have 6K or 8K scanners (well, they exist but they're not very common and I think they're used for 65mm/IMAX stuff); but why not try to squeeze their equivalent out of smaller formats? A 2K scan of an 8mm frame is probably a bit less than the equivalent a 6k scan of a 35mm frame in terms of vertical resolution, but it's getting closer.

Of course you get slightly different figures depending on the numbers you use which vary from camera to scanner to projector, but the point is I don't think there's a reason not to scan 8mm at 2K. It's not really that expensive.
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#9 James Compton

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 01:44 PM

Dear Sir/Madam

I'm looking for company which can super8 scan to 2K? I have ca. 150m (ca. 5 minutes) after color development positiv super8 tape.

Please, help me. Where, the best in Europe, but if only in another continents is it, ok, must be.

Best wishes
Tom



Tomasz,

You can do it. It has been done before.

check out this link :

www.filmhalogenuros.cl

Daniel Henriquez had Park Road Post in New Zealand scan his super 8mm negative to 2K, using a Spirit Data Cine 2K. He then printed it back to 35mm.
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#10 Kent Kumpula

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 01:56 PM

... so you could say that 720 is roughly equivalent (just slightly less than) to a 4k scan of 35mm.


That is quite high...

but why not try to squeeze their equivalent out of smaller formats?


I´d say because of the high cost, combined with the fact that you are dealing with extremely high resolutions... I don´t think that the optics on super8 cameras is of high enough quality to capture details down to 2k. Even if the film would be able to capture those fine details (wich I also doubt). Hell I bet that not even the projector lenses on 8mm projectors have that high optical quality, so I doubt that the cameras can resolve that high resolutions (it would be pointless from a manufacturers point of view, if no projector could show all the details why make optics on the cameras that high?).
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#11 Chris Durham

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 02:24 PM

You're probably right on the optics, I hadn't really taken that into consideration and I suppose it's best for the DP to judge that based on what camera's being used (some s8 cameras might really be a stretch at 720). But clarity of optics aren't everything - I want the visible grain scanned as clearly as possible too. As far as the expense I probably misspoke saying 2K scans, but I've seen 1080p scans (6% lower res than 2K) for $0.036 per foot which is $18 per roll so not bad at all.

(as for the vendor I've seen this price from I can't speak to the quality - I'm going to send a roll off in the next week or so to try them out - I'm just saying, the price is very reasonable.)
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#12 Roberto Pirodda

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Posted 07 December 2009 - 12:46 PM

Dear Sir/Madam

I'm looking for company which can super8 scan to 2K? I have ca. 150m (ca. 5 minutes) after color development positiv super8 tape.

Please, help me. Where, the best in Europe, but if only in another continents is it, ok, must be.

Best wishes
Tom



Hi Tom, i am experimenting a S8 to 2K scan, read this
http://www.filmshoot...super8 datacine
now the system is running fine, it is very slow but the quality, to me , is stunning! I can output only to hard disk in the uncompressed TIFF format, so expect a jant file size. Anyway pm if you are interessted.
Regards.
Roberto
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#13 Tomasz Kucharski

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Posted 04 January 2010 - 06:44 AM

Hi

I'm still looking for best 2K scan.

My DoP is convinced that it cannot be Telecine, Datacine. Only 2k, the best Arri Laser.

Dear Roberto, thank you, I sand your opinions to my DoP.

Dear James, thank you, This website ("filmhalogenuros") is cancelled. Park Road is in New Zeland, I hope that in Europe is though one compane which offer 2k for 8mm.

Every answer is for me very important.

Thanks and best New Year wishes for all Cinematography.com'ers

Tomasz Kucharski
e-mail adress: nadrazil@gmail.com
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#14 Kent Kumpula

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Posted 04 January 2010 - 06:52 AM

When/if you find a solution for this transfer, please return to this thread and tell us where you found the service, and how much it cost. It will help people in the future who wants to find a 2k transfer from 8mm film.

Edited by Kent Kumpula, 04 January 2010 - 06:52 AM.

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#15 Tomasz Kucharski

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Posted 04 January 2010 - 07:42 AM

Sure, I don't thought that it can be so problematic.
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#16 Kent Kumpula

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Posted 04 January 2010 - 07:45 AM

Sure, I don't thought that it can be so problematic.


Well you have been looking for such a service for over one month now, so it is clearly not as easy as finding a HD transfer.
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#17 Will Montgomery

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Posted 04 January 2010 - 10:30 AM

Maybe shoot 16mm and get a 4k scan. Then use the center 8mm. ;)

My DoP is convinced that it cannot be Telecine, Datacine. Only 2k, the best Arri Laser.

I'm just confused. If you're looking for the best quality why even look at 8mm?

Sounds like you need to find someone with a Spirit 4k and a Super 8 gate. I wonder if that exists? Do any houses have Super 8 gates for a Spirit? I know Pro8mm has the only Millennium II with a Super 8 gate in the U.S.
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#18 Paul Korver

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Posted 04 January 2010 - 10:59 AM

Hi Tomasz,
We're going through some major upgrades at Cinelicious and just bought a Spirit Datacine that can output 2K native scans. Because we always try to support the small format community I also went to great expense to get the Super 8mm gate for the Spirit which is very very difficult to find. So... we offer 444 HD and 444 2K scans from Super 8mm. We can scan your Super 8mm at 2K as either 10-Bit LOG (better for negative) or 16-bit Linear (better for positive/reversal) DPX files... we can deliver 2K ProRes 4444.

We are located in Los Angeles.

More info on the upgrades here: http://www.cinelicious.tv/fresh/

-Paul

I understand that your DP wants to get on an ARRI, Northlight etc, but there are no pin reg scanners can do Super 8mm at any resolution.
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#19 John Sprung

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Posted 04 January 2010 - 01:57 PM

I'm looking for company which can super8 scan to 2K?


I'd ask Crest National:

http://www.crestnational.com/index.php

They used to be the best place for telecine from unusual formats, but I haven't needed that in many years.




-- J.S.
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#20 Kent Kumpula

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Posted 04 January 2010 - 04:39 PM

we offer 444 HD and 444 2K scans from Super 8mm.


I couldn´find any prices for 2k transfers. I´m curious... How much would it cost to transfer, say ten carts (150 meters or 500 feet), of super 8 to 2k? Of course, the transfer is to be colorcorrected in telecine (nobody orders a onelight if they are going for a 2k transfer).
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