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Question about the Arri 16m


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#1 Paulo Arellano

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Posted 29 December 2009 - 02:34 AM

Hello, I am new here and got some questions about the Arri 16m camera. I saw an ad on craigslist for a 16M for $400 with three lenses of my choice (hes got a few he says; 10mm, 35mm,50mm, 80mm), the guy selling it told me the camera is working but has not been serviced in years and has been stored away in a house. He also told me the camera does not come with a magazine.

I have been making short films on video for years and want to move into film and although i do not know much, from some research ive done , the camera seems to be a great little camera for 16mm and from footage ive seen of the 16s (i havent found any of the 16m) the quality looks great. Do you guys think this is a good deal or do better deals pop up on ebay ?
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#2 Ed Sieb

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Posted 29 December 2009 - 03:09 AM

Hello, I am new here and got some questions about the Arri 16m camera. I saw an ad on craigslist for a 16M for $400 with three lenses of my choice (hes got a few he says; 10mm, 35mm,50mm, 80mm), the guy selling it told me the camera is working but has not been serviced in years and has been stored away in a house. He also told me the camera does not come with a magazine.

I have been making short films on video for years and want to move into film and although i do not know much, from some research ive done , the camera seems to be a great little camera for 16mm and from footage ive seen of the 16s (i havent found any of the 16m) the quality looks great. Do you guys think this is a good deal or do better deals pop up on ebay ?

A 16M with prime lenses already mounted on the body, for $400. is not bad at all!!! . (Prime lenses (depending on make and quality) can run anywhere from $250. to over $1000. each!.) (I'm going to assume it's a straight 16M, and not an M/B? The M/B takes one bayonet mount lens, and two standard mounts.)

The magazines are available from various sources for under $200 each. You will probably need a matte box and filter holders too. Those run about $300. each more or less. I assume it comes with a motor? Assorted motors will run anywhere from $75 all the way to $1000, depending on type (constant speed, variable, regulated or Tobin). You're going to need a battery belt or battery box to run the motor, and its associated cabling. All of this can be bought from various used dealers or even eBay.

The Arri M is my preferred choice for shooting 16. I actuallty prefer it to the Arri BL. Lighter and easier to transport and use. It's an MOS camera, so it's noisy, but if that's not an issue, it's a great camera.

Assuming that it's in good shape, it will need some attention from an expert - lubing, adjustments, and general checking out. The Arri M can be serviced by Axel Broda, in LA. He is the reknown "go-to-guy" expert on the Arri M and Arri BL.

Let me know if you decide to buy it, and I'll give you the details on magazine and parts sources, and Axel's contact info.

Ed
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#3 Paulo Arellano

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Posted 29 December 2009 - 03:16 AM

A 16M with prime lenses already mounted on the body, for $400. is not bad at all!!! . (Prime lenses (depending on make and quality) can run anywhere from $250. to over $1000. each!.) (I'm going to assume it's a straight 16M, and not an M/B? The M/B takes one bayonet mount lens, and two standard mounts.)

The magazines are available from various sources for under $200 each. You will probably need a matte box and filter holders too. Those run about $300. each more or less. I assume it comes with a motor? Assorted motors will run anywhere from $75 all the way to $1000, depending on type (constant speed, variable, regulated or Tobin). You're going to need a battery belt or battery box to run the motor, and its associated cabling. All of this can be bought from various used dealers or even eBay.

The Arri M is my preferred choice for shooting 16. I actuallty prefer it to the Arri BL. Lighter and easier to transport and use. It's an MOS camera, so it's noisy, but if that's not an issue, it's a great camera.

Assuming that it's in good shape, it will need some attention from an expert - lubing, adjustments, and general checking out. The Arri M can be serviced by Axel Broda, in LA. He is the reknown "go-to-guy" expert on the Arri M and Arri BL.

Let me know if you decide to buy it, and I'll give you the details on magazine and parts sources, and Axel's contact info.

Ed


Thanks for the info!, As far as the film magazines, I understand that the 16M can use 200f or 400f magazines. About how many recording minutes are each of those mags?
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#4 Ed Sieb

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Posted 29 December 2009 - 03:25 AM

Thanks for the info!, As far as the film magazines, I understand that the 16M can use 200f or 400f magazines. About how many recording minutes are each of those mags?

You will probably want a 400 ft mag. A 400 ft can hold almost 11 minutes of film, and you can easily get 400 ft rolls of raw stock. (200 ft is a hair over 5 minutes.)
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#5 Paulo Arellano

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Posted 29 December 2009 - 03:31 AM

You will probably want a 400 ft mag. A 400 ft can hold almost 11 minutes of film, and you can easily get 400 ft rolls of raw stock. (200 ft is a hair over 5 minutes.)


will this one work with the 16m?
http://cgi.ebay.com/...#ht_3351wt_1338
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#6 Ed Sieb

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Posted 29 December 2009 - 04:19 AM

will this one work with the 16m?
http://cgi.ebay.com/...#ht_3351wt_1338

It sure looks like an Arri M magazine. I compared it to my own M mags, and my BL mag and pictures of the Arri S mag, and it sure looks like the magazine for the Arri M. However, unless it's an optical illusiion, it appears to be missing the core hub adapters, (which fit over the two hub pins shown in the open mag well). Core adapters are available from Whitehouse Audio Visual: Core Adapters You might wish to enquire about that. The price is certainly in line with the current used market.

There's also this one:
ARRIFLEX 400ft MAGAZINE for ARRI M (Note: GBP 49.00 is about $80. USD.)
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#7 John Salim

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Posted 29 December 2009 - 06:43 AM

Hello, I am new here and got some questions about the Arri 16m camera. I saw an ad on craigslist for a 16M for $400 with three lenses of my choice (hes got a few he says; 10mm, 35mm,50mm, 80mm), the guy selling it told me the camera is working but has not been serviced in years and has been stored away in a house. He also told me the camera does not come with a magazine.

I have been making short films on video for years and want to move into film and although i do not know much, from some research ive done , the camera seems to be a great little camera for 16mm and from footage ive seen of the 16s (i havent found any of the 16m) the quality looks great. Do you guys think this is a good deal or do better deals pop up on ebay ?


Hi John,
When I saw 'craiglists' .......alarm bells started ringing !
This is almost certainly a scam, and the resaon I say that is, I'm on a 16mm film collectors forum ( 16mmfilmtalk.com ) and a similar thing has happened there.
Craigslist advertised a room full of 16mm prints of very collectable titles - all can be grabbed by using Western Union money orders and using U Haul to carry them away.
The advert is below.....


My Grandfather Died Last Week. We are throwing out all of his things, he stored them in his house which has been "Willed".

He has a room full of about 3500 16" 16mm Films. Also there are projectors and a screen.

Time is important so to make this work, the first person to come pick this up before December 27th gets it, otherwise it goes in the trash.

I will not hold it for you, first come first serve. You will need a Uhaul truck about 22' long to get everything.

The film titles that I can see are "GONE WITH THE WIND TECH" "STAR WARS LPP" "RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK LPP" "SONG OF THE SOUTH" "FANTASIA" "DRACULA ORIG." WOLFMAN ORIG." "CITIZEN KANE" "THIS ISLAND EARTH TECH" and then he has about 300 films which say "CHARLIE CHAS - " and then various titles after the -.

I think TECH means the film is a technical film, LPP might mean Long Print Process because he used to tell us about how long it took to print films at the lab where he worked. He used to work for FOTOKEM but they don't want this stuff.

The projector is something called a FUMEO and it is large, it will take 2 people to move it. The other projector is an EIKI 5500. There is a table which has levers and cranks and some sort of ultrasonic splicer.

There is a machine called a URSA RANK but it's disconnected.

Hurry up and come get this, you have to move it if you want it. You have to take it all.



If you know anything about movies, you'll know this is all B***S**T !
Please beware.

John S :(
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#8 Ed Sieb

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Posted 29 December 2009 - 11:33 AM

Hi John,
When I saw 'craiglists' .......alarm bells started ringing !

Hi John (Salim), good to see you here! I'm very active on 16mmfilmtalk.com ; I'm both a collector and a film-maker as well.

You may be right about scams on Craigslist; John will, I'm sure communicate with the seller for more info. Let's see what he finds out. Hopefully, it's a real deal!

About 18 months ago, I saw a great deal on Craig's List - a B&H 70DR complete kit with case in mint condition for $275.00 I inquired and it it was no scam! I eventuallly declined to buy it, but some lucky stiff got a great classic camera!

Let's see what John finds out.
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#9 Tim Carroll

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Posted 29 December 2009 - 11:33 AM

John, are you "saint seiya" from the 2-Pop.com Cinematographer forum. Because yesterday I gave a number of detailed answers to questions about an Arriflex 16M camera being sold on Craigslist for $500. Are you the same poster, and if not, does your Craigslist ad have the camera listed for $400? If this same camera is listed on two different Craigslist ads for two different prices, maybe it is a scam.

As far as information on the camera, here is what I posted yesterday on 2-Pop.com

The Arriflex 16M is a cross between the Arriflex 16S and the Arriflex 16BL, it's kind of halfway between the two. It has the same movement as the Arriflex 16S, but does not take internal film loads (100 ft spools inside the camera body). The 16M, like the 16BL, has to be used with a film magazine.

All the lenses that will work on an Arriflex 16S will also work on an Arriflex 16M, so you can look at the film clips on the Arri16S.com website to see what kind of images you can get from the camera (provided you use the same lenses as were used in the tests).

http://www.arri16s.com/FilmClips1.htm

You can download a free copy of the original Arriflex 16M operation instructions at this link:

Arriflex16M.pdf

Hope that gives you something to go on.


Things to take into account; when was it last serviced, what kind of shape is it in, does it come with any lenses, does it have one or more 400 ft magazines, what motor comes with the camera, does it come with a battery pack, etc.?

All those things would effect price. Also, check on ebay and see what similar camera packages are selling for.


The lenses the seller is offering are probably Schneider lenses, which are "okay" glass. If they are Zeiss glass, that would be better. They wouldn't be Cooke Kinetals because they weren't made in those focal lengths.

And finally, magazines. It's strange that the camera wouldn't come with at least one magazine, as it won't work without a magazine. Don't know why the seller would own just the camera body, as it can't be used without a magazine. That would make me wonder if it has a motor with it. And a power cable. All things to find out before you give the seller any money.

Best,
-Tim
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#10 Paulo Arellano

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Posted 29 December 2009 - 12:19 PM

John, are you "saint seiya" from the 2-Pop.com Cinematographer forum. Because yesterday I gave a number of detailed answers to questions about an Arriflex 16M camera being sold on Craigslist for $500. Are you the same poster, and if not, does your Craigslist ad have the camera listed for $400? If this same camera is listed on two different Craigslist ads for two different prices, maybe it is a scam.

As far as information on the camera, here is what I posted yesterday on 2-Pop.com





The lenses the seller is offering are probably Schneider lenses, which are "okay" glass. If they are Zeiss glass, that would be better. They wouldn't be Cooke Kinetals because they weren't made in those focal lengths.

And finally, magazines. It's strange that the camera wouldn't come with at least one magazine, as it won't work without a magazine. Don't know why the seller would own just the camera body, as it can't be used without a magazine. That would make me wonder if it has a motor with it. And a power cable. All things to find out before you give the seller any money.

Best,
-Tim


Tim, i am saint seiya from the p2forum. I called the seller last night and i told him i didnt have enough money and i told him how i would be using it and he said i could have it for 400. Thanks a lot for your info i will be calling him before I leave for a little more info like the brand of the lenses and as far as the magazine, he said thats how its been stored, without the mag.
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#11 Tim Carroll

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Posted 29 December 2009 - 12:39 PM

Tim, i am saint seiya from the p2forum. I called the seller last night and i told him i didnt have enough money and i told him how i would be using it and he said i could have it for 400. Thanks a lot for your info i will be calling him before I leave for a little more info like the brand of the lenses and as far as the magazine, he said thats how its been stored, without the mag.


John,

I'd get alot more information from him. I can understand him storing it without the magazine, as long as it had the cavity cover in place. But then what happened to the magazine? Was this a school/university camera? Lots of suspicious bits of information so far. Once you find out the real story behind the camera, then it will be easier to see if everything adds up and if it would be worth investing $400 into it.

Like I said, the camera is completely unusable without a magazine, so why does he have just the body? Something doesn't sound right.

Best,
-Tim
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#12 Paulo Arellano

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Posted 29 December 2009 - 01:31 PM

an update:

So after much research for the 16m, it looks like i would be spending an extra $300 (not including a tripod) or so for the rest of the equipment needed so I called the seller and told him that it wasn't going to work out for me. The guy is an hour away from where i live and driving that long to see something that i dont know much about is a bit crazy imo. He did tell me that he also had two 16mm handheld bolex cameras that were cheaper if i were interested...

thanks a lot for all the information guys, im definately going to be sticking around because i plan on shooting on film someway or another next year.
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#13 Mark Dunn

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Posted 29 December 2009 - 02:14 PM

Hi John,
When I saw 'craiglists' .......alarm bells started ringing !
This is almost certainly a scam, and the resaon I say that is, I'm on a 16mm film collectors forum ( 16mmfilmtalk.com ) and a similar thing has happened there.
Craigslist advertised a room full of 16mm prints of very collectable titles - all can be grabbed by using Western Union money orders and using U Haul to carry them away.
The advert is below.....


My Grandfather Died Last Week. We are throwing out all of his things, he stored them in his house which has been "Willed".

He has a room full of about 3500 16" 16mm Films. Also there are projectors and a screen.

Time is important so to make this work, the first person to come pick this up before December 27th gets it, otherwise it goes in the trash.

I will not hold it for you, first come first serve. You will need a Uhaul truck about 22' long to get everything.

The film titles that I can see are "GONE WITH THE WIND TECH" "STAR WARS LPP" "RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK LPP" "SONG OF THE SOUTH" "FANTASIA" "DRACULA ORIG." WOLFMAN ORIG." "CITIZEN KANE" "THIS ISLAND EARTH TECH" and then he has about 300 films which say "CHARLIE CHAS - " and then various titles after the -.

I think TECH means the film is a technical film, LPP might mean Long Print Process because he used to tell us about how long it took to print films at the lab where he worked. He used to work for FOTOKEM but they don't want this stuff.

The projector is something called a FUMEO and it is large, it will take 2 people to move it. The other projector is an EIKI 5500. There is a table which has levers and cranks and some sort of ultrasonic splicer.

There is a machine called a URSA RANK but it's disconnected.

Hurry up and come get this, you have to move it if you want it. You have to take it all.



If you know anything about movies, you'll know this is all B***S**T !
Please beware.

John S :(


It certainly is, but I think that's a clue to its authenticity. The owner has no idea about film terms and is not pretending he does.
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#14 John Salim

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Posted 29 December 2009 - 05:09 PM

Hi John (Salim), good to see you here! I'm very active on 16mmfilmtalk.com ; I'm both a collector and a film-maker as well.

You may be right about scams on Craigslist; John will, I'm sure communicate with the seller for more info. Let's see what he finds out. Hopefully, it's a real deal!

About 18 months ago, I saw a great deal on Craig's List - a B&H 70DR complete kit with case in mint condition for $275.00 I inquired and it it was no scam! I eventuallly declined to buy it, but some lucky stiff got a great classic camera!

Let's see what John finds out.


Hi Ed ! ....I thought I recognised your name :P

Yes I'm keeping my fingers crossed John doesn't get scammed by this 'great sounding deal'.
I've been scammed in the past and know how easy it is to want to believe in a good deal - it's easy to get sucked in - and very embarrassing to admit it afterwards. :angry:

Looking forward to see how this turns out !
John S
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#15 Paulo Arellano

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Posted 29 December 2009 - 05:14 PM

Hi Ed ! ....I thought I recognised your name :P

Yes I'm keeping my fingers crossed John doesn't get scammed by this 'great sounding deal'.
I've been scammed in the past and know how easy it is to want to believe in a good deal - it's easy to get sucked in - and very embarrassing to admit it afterwards. :angry:

Looking forward to see how this turns out !
John S



sorry dudes i didnt get it, read my post above.
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#16 Ed Sieb

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Posted 29 December 2009 - 05:53 PM

sorry dudes i didnt get it, read my post above.

Indeed! To be honest, you'll need to spend a minimum of $2000.00 to $2500.00 to get any decent Arri 16MM system, including camera, lense or lenses, motor(s), battery, matte-box, magazine(s) and some filters. And this is on the used market. You can get them for less, but that takes luck, and contacts to find someone who happens to want to get rid of a system cheap. I was very lucky to get mine as cheaply as I did, but I happened to be at the "right place at the right time".

Well... there's always a K3!!! :P
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#17 Paulo Arellano

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Posted 29 December 2009 - 06:14 PM

i think im better off finding some guys who go to school for cinematography and paying them to shoot my stuff.
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Wooden Camera

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Technodolly

rebotnix Technologies

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Glidecam

The Slider

Opal

Aerial Filmworks