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#1 Ramesh kumar

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 07:57 AM

hello
Anyone can share your experience about Ice-cream product shoot?
I m going to shoot ice-cream i have decided to be used arri435 Es (s35-3per)for 150 fps and using skater for movements ,arri pocketpar for illuminate.
Im not sure about lens which is make more magnification ratio (masterfram macro100 not available).can u suggest another lens for macro work.
can u explain how to setup the studio for working for ice-cream .
if im going my way what would be the negative point i have to deal

Thanks.
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#2 David Rakoczy

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 08:15 AM

A Food Stylist is mandatory.
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#3 K Borowski

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 10:47 AM

Ice cream, in particular, sounds like it would present quite a challenge, unless it is fake ice-cream.

Other foods can be painted, glasses can be given fake moisture condensation (along with fake ice-cubes), and steam/warmth can be simulated, but keeping ice-cream in its solid state must require a cold set or a clever freezing technique up until the camera is rolling.

Then there are those bright, hot, lights!
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#4 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 10:49 AM

I'd look into fake iced cream for most of the "beauty shots," with some form of sheen on it, and then if you need to scoop any of it, well then get a big vat and shoot it as soon as it comes in
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#5 David Rakoczy

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 11:29 AM

Hire a Food Stylist and let a 'professional' show you how it's done ;). They (don't) use fake ice cream... there are also some legal issues with that approach.
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#6 K Borowski

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 11:45 AM

They (don't) use fake ice cream... there are also some legal issues with that approach.


Right!

I think there ought be legal issue with a lot of OTHER things they do, like gluing on poppy-seeds to hamburger buns, and cutting hamburgers in the back to make them appear bigger.

There's a lot of other deceptive sizing, though I'm not sure how an agency could really regulate the use of exagerated perspective or a wide-angle lens.


Not that I am questioning your recommendation for a food stylist, David, but how DO they do it? I've seen some other interesting food techniques, but never ice-cream. I imagine that'd be quite a challenge, having struggled with simple things like reflective surfaces (keeping them free of dust) and doing fake moisture condensation on glass rims properly.
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#7 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 12:10 PM

How, I wonder, is it a legal issue? Not that I don't believe you David, but I'd assume they'd just do a model of the iced-cream much as you do with ice-cubes, though obviously, of a different material.
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#8 David Rakoczy

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 12:32 PM

I recall them using nitrogen and an assortment of many other items... all placed on/in/around to enhance the (product)... sure we manipulate/ alter (I like 'enhance')... but that involves the 'product' itself (for the most part). Generally, the producers are proud of their product and (want) it shown... even often times when they shouldn't :lol:


btw.. I have worked on McDonald's, Burger King, Taco Bell, Pizza and numerous Wine and Beer Spots and yes... Ice Cream table top work (which is very tedious).
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#9 David Rakoczy

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 12:38 PM

How, I wonder, is it a legal issue? Not that I don't believe you David, but I'd assume they'd just do a model of the iced-cream much as you do with ice-cubes, though obviously, of a different material.



In that Ad they aren't selling 'ice cubes' are they? I believe they are selling what ever is being poured (over) the plastic ice cubes and I'd bet they poured the actual product... even if they 'enhanced' that product.
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#10 Charlie Peich

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 12:38 PM

You need dry ice! Put dry ice chips in a metal screen strainer and hold it over the ice cream until ready to shoot. The melting "ice" will steam downward over the ice cream to keep it cold. A Food Stylist experienced with ice cream will have a strainer and dry ice over the ice cream after they sculpt it and while carrying to the set. Some will request a small freezer to have on set to keep the multiple "heros" in until ready to shoot. Still, ice cream doesn't last as long, but this helps prolong it. I've never photographed "fake" mashed potato ice cream.

If I need greater depth of field on the shot, I don't increase the light and stop down, I prefer controlling the depth of field with shift/tilt lenses (Arri and shooting 35mm) and work at lower levels with tungsten light. I have used HMI's before to keep heat from rising with higher light levels. Different look however.

If using tungsten lights, set your shot and levels, then after putting your lights on a dimmers, dim them down until ready to roll/shoot. Remember the old "lights, camera, action"!

All this is subject to changes depending on your shot and any moves involved. PrePro!

Charlie
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#11 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 12:38 PM

Ahh makes sense. Like a giant dip-n-dot!
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#12 David Rakoczy

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 12:40 PM

Amen Charlie! While you are shooting one.. a dozen more are being carved, shaped, molded, sprayed, sprinkled... and on and on... going through a box or two of cones looking for that (perfect) cone... and even when finding it, trimming, shaping, sculpting, sanding, spraying and on and on..... sheeeesh, can we wrap this thing? How long can this go on? If you've been there you know :blink:

It takes a tremendous amount of focus and discipline to do that kind of work. For Micky-Ds we went thru at least 300 Buns and Patties and had three Food Stylist working NON STOP for 16 hours. Sure that is an extreme but when shooting an edible product, a product we consume, it will always help to have a Food Stylist who knows how to get it done... especially with Ice Cream.
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#13 Justin Hayward

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 01:04 PM

David and Charlie are both right.

You start with something like a thousand gallons of the product or more – lots of waste.

If the glass is clear they tend to build a bunch of tops and bottoms that get checked off on then stuck right in the freezer. They’re brought out when you're ready to shoot and dry ice is held over it until the second before the camera rolls. The glass has to be continually wiped down because of frost. Then, if the client or whoever spends too long critiquing – making the food stylist tweak for too long – it usually dies and you go on to the next one without shooting.

We do, however, light fake ice cream before the real stuff comes out.
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#14 David Rakoczy

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 01:16 PM

Stand In Scoops :lol:

Hadn't seen those. We used colored foam balls.
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#15 Charlie Peich

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 02:39 PM

It takes a tremendous amount of focus and discipline to do that kind of work.


I say Amen to that. The Stylist is a true artist with food! Usually the day before the shoot, the Stylist is is sorting through the food the client provided, or what she has shopped for. Always looking for the perfect specimen. That's the difference in how good the product looks. You have to have a prepro/prelight day to pull the best photography off when dealing with food. One needs to see how the product looks under the lights and through the lens. But, I'm always lucky to be able to work that way.

David, did you ever hear of the great grand-daddy of food shooters Elbert Budin? When I was a pup, he was my inspiration.

For Micky-Ds they went thru at least 300 Buns and Patties and had three Food Stylist working NON STOP for 16 hours. Sure that is an extreme but when shooting an edible product, a product we consume, it will always help to have a Food Stylist who knows how to get it done... especially with Ice Cream.


I worked on a couple of national spots for Micky-Ds. At that time, McDonalds insisted that no "trickery' was done while shooting food. Also, they required 3 different shots of all food set-ups. That meant, after you shot one hero burger, you replaced it with a 2nd hero burger, then you shot it again with a 3rd hero burger... then on to next set up. They wanted 3 different variations to pick from while sitting in the "how come" room. Well, that added time to your day...$$$$$$$$$$.

As far as trickery, as an example, ALL steam in a shot had to be real, no A/B smoke. That meant, on the stage we would build a smaller room large enough to contain our set up with lights. The room was constructed of a cheap simple wood frame and then covered with visqueen to seal it off. Then we would put 2 portable air conditioners running full blast to cool the room down so the steam would show....... again..... $$$$$$$$. It worked great for for showing the steam while frying a burger or coming off just poured coffee etc.

Charlie
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#16 David Rakoczy

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 03:17 PM

There ya go gentlemen.

Charlie, I meant it takes a tremendous amount of focus and discipline to work on those shoots in almost (any) capacity... DP, Camera Op, Gaffer, Key Grip, Dolly/ Crane Grip including Food Stylist etc.... those days seemed to feel the (longest) to me. I never worked with Mr. Budin tho.

They (McD's) were allowing the Stylists to add sesame seeds to the buns.. someone was doing nothing but that all day long, another did the condiments, lettuce, pickles, tomatoes and onions etc... the third did all the grilling.... they then had an On Set Stylist/ Artist bringing it all together and tweaking for camera so they had four folks working on just that that all day long and into the night.

Charlie just demonstrated the extremes a company will go while shooting to deliver the perfect 'actual product' shot.
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