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Light an interior with sunset light


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#1 Claudio Fusini

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Posted 31 January 2010 - 08:30 AM

Hi everyone!

I'm a newbie, a student, and I'm having some troubles in making light set-up for a stage (is an exercise for the lighting course at my school). I know there are a lot of topics about sunset light but it's hard for me to understand lights. I'm here to learn! ;)

I have to light a kind of living room with a sunset light coming from a window.. and light a girl which is sit at the table with the same sunlight. It's a situation like.. mm.. when you come back home during the sunset hour and there is the living room lighten up just with the sunlight coming from window. :D

I can use arri650, HMI and Kino. CTO and CTB. The window must be back the girl.

I thought to use the HMI as the sun light, diffuse it trough the window. Using a tungsten light with full CTB to light a part of the stage like a sun shine.
Put a tungsten light as a keylight back of the girl with full CTB and another tungsten as backlight on the otherside of the girl with no CTB. Then use Kino (5600K) as a fill light. The camera it's with 5600 balance. And it's only one shot, like a picture.

I'm afraid that I'm doing "too much" and that the light will be not "sunset" but midday :D

as I told at the beginning I'm a new one ;) and I'm italian, sorry for my english ;)
thanx a lot!

Claudio
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#2 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 31 January 2010 - 08:39 AM

Claudio;
I if the camera is at 5600K, as that will make the sunset "white," when in reality they're golden, orange. so you'll need to CTO any daylight lights and possibly your tungsten heads as well.
And how to light it would depend on what mood you want.
Were it me, and I had acess to it and wanted to keep it simple, I'd use a PAR64 with a VNS bulb and just beam it in as a back light and then fill with whatever is necessary to keep the face from going too dark.
Or I'd go for a 2K open face through a silk or some 216 to soften it up if I didn't want a hard beam.

Note, though, this would only work on a smaller set, with the light closer in (which is what I'm guessing you're doing given your light possibilities).

Now, what wattage is the HMI? I'm guessing it's at least a 575, but let's hope it's 'round a 1200. I'd take the HMI through the window with 3/4 or full CTO and perhaps some straw/yellow on it, depends how it looks to my eye. I would try to sneak something in around the girl sitting to fill her in, and then I would also try to build in a little bit of ambiance in the room to keep it from going fully dark, depends what format you're working with of course.
So HMI or your most powerful light as a backlight for the sunset effect, something for a fill, either the 650 or the kino depending on where you can put it, hopefully you can get the kino in there to add in some fill and then use the 650 for a general ambiance light if needed.

Now of course everyone on here will light that scene differently, of course. Different strokes for different folks.
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#3 Claudio Fusini

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Posted 31 January 2010 - 08:54 AM

Thanx Adrian!

well.. I cannot use a PAR. And the HMI is 575 ;) I'm free to do what I want but I have to use that lights plus CTO and CTB. I can also change the camera balance. Maybe use 3200K is more simple? (I know is not a matter of make things easier but I'm afraid to make wrong choices).
The look I want to give is golden and yes: the set is small ;)
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#4 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 31 January 2010 - 09:03 AM

Go with the 575 as the sun, it'll give you more output per watt than the 650. Use the 650 as a soft ambiance if you need it for the room, and the kino for fill. Keep the camera set to 5600K and CTO all the daylight heads with I'd say 3/4 (you can increase the orange later on in post if needed, just get some on camera to begin with). then 1/2 CTB the 650 (yes 1/2, let it go slightly more neutral to the sensor (bluer to the eye) than your sunlight to help keep some form of color contrast in the scene). If possible, it might be wise to balance the camera over 5600K, I've sometimes set mine to 8000K or 10,000K to get a little bit of a more orange sun look. It's how this image was taken (it was not as yellow/orange in camera and I think I had the EX1 set to something like 6500K or 7000K)

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#5 Claudio Fusini

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Posted 31 January 2010 - 09:18 AM

Go with the 575 as the sun, it'll give you more output per watt than the 650. Use the 650 as a soft ambiance if you need it for the room, and the kino for fill. Keep the camera set to 5600K and CTO all the daylight heads with I'd say 3/4 (you can increase the orange later on in post if needed, just get some on camera to begin with). then 1/2 CTB the 650 (yes 1/2, let it go slightly more neutral to the sensor (bluer to the eye) than your sunlight to help keep some form of color contrast in the scene). If possible, it might be wise to balance the camera over 5600K, I've sometimes set mine to 8000K or 10,000K to get a little bit of a more orange sun look. It's how this image was taken (it was not as yellow/orange in camera and I think I had the EX1 set to something like 6500K or 7000K)


I cannot change the balance of the camera, just 5600 or 3200 and I cannot make a post color correction, camera is just used here to have a 5600 or 3200 balance and have an output for the monitor, the lighting course now is just to teach us how to decide the position of lights and how to correct them with CTO and CTB. But what happens if I put a CTB to the HMI using a 5600K balance?
Thanx!
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#6 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 31 January 2010 - 09:20 AM

It gets much much bluer. CTB will correct tungsten sources to daylight, but adding it to a daylight source, such as an HMI or a 5600K Kino flow will make the light bluer.
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#7 Claudio Fusini

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Posted 31 January 2010 - 09:35 AM

Yes, ok! Thanx adrian! (good sunset picture ;))

So I will put the HMI as sunlight behind the window with a CTO to make it more orange using the 5600K balance on camera. I put a half CTB on the 650 and the kino as fill. I'll make a general light in the ambience to make it not so dark. I think I was wrong in using too much of light and in not using the CTO on HMI to give the gold look.. right? :)
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#8 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 31 January 2010 - 09:38 AM

Right right. Be careful with the Kino though, as they can be either 3200K or 5600K depending on what tubes are installed. The 3200K tubes have Gold ends and the 5600K tubes has blue, so CTO or CTB accordingly. You might also find the 650 is too much light, if this is the case, shine it away off of something white and/or yellow/gold to bounce into the room. Try to keep the 575 directional as you can and with the kino, I'd try to get it to give a nice little catch eye light as well as providing fill so as to keep the actor's face "alive." (visible eyes for emotion)
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#9 Claudio Fusini

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Posted 31 January 2010 - 09:53 AM

Yes I'll put the 575 direcional with the Kino and this one catching the eyes of the actress in order to make them visible. And yes, I'll make the 650 soft coz In the small stage I have to work it creates too much of light. In this way the window will be the source of the main light and 650 plus kino will be used to make the actress visible also if underexposed. I know the difference between the 3200 and the 5600 kino tubes. In this case I should use the 5600 right? or I'm wrong with that? :D
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#10 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 31 January 2010 - 09:58 AM

It's a tough call on whether or not to use the 5600K kino tubes; personally I strongly dislike how the 3200K tubes look, but you could use them if you added some 1/8 CTO to them, in my opinion. Now, the 5600K tubes will help because you can use the same gel combo as you did on the HMI and I'd personally be more inclined to go this route, but again, that's personal preference as you could also use the 3200K tubes without and CTO or CTB and get away with it. Personally, though, I think the gel will help on the 5600K tubes not only for color matching to the HMI but also to knock down some of the intensity of the light. If you can I'd also keep fomr 216 or 251 on hand to soften up the kino, but dunno if you'll be allowed to do that.
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#11 Claudio Fusini

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Posted 31 January 2010 - 10:09 AM

I can use both 3200 and 5600. But I'm not allowed to use 216 or 251. I think I'll use the 5600 tubes for the exercise and then I will see the difference using the 3200 so I can also have comparison looking them.
Thanx a lot for the help Adrian! :) and have a nice sunday!
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#12 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 31 January 2010 - 10:10 AM

Anytime. Good luck
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