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agfa for print


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#1 Andreas Wessberg FSF

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Posted 13 February 2010 - 05:06 PM

Hi!
For an upcoming feature I made test to print on both kodak and agfa.
First time with agfa for me and I was really surprised with the result.
Kodak had much more grain in the overexposed areas.
I thought agfa was a kind of low budget stock, but what I could see it was
alot better. I even had the lab to dubble check that they hadnt mixed up the reels.
Anyone with the same experience or comments on this?
Do I dare to go with agfa! I will of course do another test when it´s time to do the prints.

andreas
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#2 Charles MacDonald

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Posted 13 February 2010 - 08:25 PM

First time with agfa for me and I was really surprised with the result.
I thought agfa was a kind of low budget stock, but what I could see it was
alot better. Do I dare to go with agfa! I will of course do another test when it´s time to do the prints.

Agfa still makes Print film in the European market. They were always considered a high quality product. The only concern is that you may not find labs in North america who could duplicate your prints if you wanted to make prints for north american distribution. Fuji and Kodak dominate NA labs.
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#3 K Borowski

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Posted 13 February 2010 - 09:11 PM

Labs in North America might not be used to working with Agfa, but it should be process compatible, as long as you can arrange for the film from Agfa to get delivered to the lab.

Labs seem quite comfortable switching back between Kodak and Fuji.
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#4 Dirk DeJonghe

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Posted 14 February 2010 - 03:03 AM

Our default print stock is Agfa CP30. When a customer asks for a particular print stock, we always try to do a blind test, using whatever stock he prefers, and Agfa CP30. Nine times out of ten he prefers the Agfa stock in a blind test. CP30 sits halfway between Vision and Premier in saturation and contrast, is more stable in the red channel during printing and has nice clean neutral shadows. The stock is specifically designed to work with Intermediate negatives.
I like the combination of Fuji Eterna Intermediate negative and CP30 for my DI work. On my Truelight calibration it shows up as a straight line (combo recoreder and Intermediate neg).
Agfa (a Belgian company by the way) still makes Color Print and Sound recording B&W stock for MP use; they still make color negative stock but only for aerial use.
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#5 Simon Wyss

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Posted 14 February 2010 - 03:51 AM

Agfa have around 80 percent of the India cinema print market.
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#6 Andreas Wessberg FSF

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Posted 14 February 2010 - 05:02 AM

thanks for your input on this. I guess there´s nothing to worrie about.
If it looks good it is good. The agfa was really so much nicer than regular vision,
clean and had a more expensive look if you know what I mean.
But that´s my opinion yours may differ.

andreas
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#7 Stephen Williams

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Posted 14 February 2010 - 05:37 AM

thanks for your input on this. I guess there´s nothing to worrie about.
If it looks good it is good. The agfa was really so much nicer than regular vision,
clean and had a more expensive look if you know what I mean.
But that´s my opinion yours may differ.

andreas


Agfa never had a problem selling print stock to Labs in Europe.
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#8 K Borowski

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Posted 14 February 2010 - 10:22 AM

This is probably due to my doing mostly indy projects, but, in my case, a lab will want to use their own stock, not stock that I supply.

This is because they want to add their markup to it (not their fault; a lot of clients seem to believe that film printing is like offset printing in terms of ease-of-use and cost :blink: ), so they may want to charge you a premium for a "custom set-up" if you're printing in the Americas and your run won't be big enough for them, Andreas.


Europe you shouldn't have a problem. I saw some Agfa in the states a while back, but it was a trailer for a Spanish language film (or could've been from Mexico or S. America I guess). That one didn't look so hot, but the real skill comes in in the printing.

Unless you were holding Agfa, Fuji, and Kodak up side-by-side (unless you're talking about a premium stock like premiere) the differences are all very subtle.

I'm envious that you had an opportunity to do this test!


BTW, I was trying to get a hold of someone a few months back to do a side-by-side test similar to the one you are doing between the three color companies, and I never heard back from Agfa; heard back from Kodak and Fuji right away.

If you have a contact for getting an account set up to get a test roll and then order stock from them, I'd appreciate if you could e-mail or PM me that information.

I'd actually been hearing scuttlebut that they had shut down their operation and were just selling off what was left. Glad to hear that is a flat-out lie. :D
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#9 Russell Richard Fowler

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Posted 14 February 2010 - 11:02 AM

Agfa is a nice print stock and have had seen nice results done in labs in South America. In the U.S.A. you only have one distributor handling the product....Hollywood Film Company.
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#10 Dirk DeJonghe

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Posted 14 February 2010 - 12:39 PM

Agfa sold off their consumer products division to a German company called Agfaphoto, which went bust soon after.
They only do B2B products now such as very advanced medical equipment, they are looking to apply their film-coating expertise to such new markets as low cost flexible solar panels etc, etc. Some of the major markets such as the US seem to have the pressure from the 'majors' to order one particular type of print stock and the labs have to use what the 'majors' dictate, regardless of price and quality. Stanley Kubrick for one always specified Agfa print stock.

For a lab it is best to have as few print stocks as possible, every different stock requires calibration of picture and sound exposures, more short ends etc. By the time the calibrations are done for a new stock type, several thousand feet may have been used.
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#11 K Borowski

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 11:04 AM

For a lab it is best to have as few print stocks as possible, every different stock requires calibration of picture and sound exposures, more short ends etc. By the time the calibrations are done for a new stock type, several thousand feet may have been used.



Several THOUSAND feet? Maybe if you are running a lab with 20 processing machines and 80 different printers, but then that's one can of film for tests a day out of probably a thousand cans in customer work.

U.S. release printing labs routinely switch back and forth between 2383 and Fuji (sorry, forgot the stock number). Adding a third stock would entail a fee of some sort, but I doubt it would give them trouble. I doubt it takes more than a hundred feet to run daily calibrations on a machine, and a control strip for the processor or two (about 8"/20cm long) and you're set. Compared to a 10,000ft./3000m feature, it's nothing.

The studios dictate what stock the lab uses.

Besides, it seems these days that they just IGNORE the calibration procedure, and there aren't any ends of any significance, as they ultrasonically splice giant spools of it together in the printer.



Thanks for the tip Russell, Agfa completely ignored my query.
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#12 Leo Anthony Vale

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 04:28 PM

When WRS was in business, they did most of there printing on Kodak.

Loop jobs were printed on Agfa.
The loop jobs were almost all commercials for theatres & frequently there would be a flat and a scope version.
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#13 K Borowski

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 06:20 PM

When WRS was in business, they did most of there printing on Kodak.

Loop jobs were printed on Agfa.
The loop jobs were almost all commercials for theatres & frequently there would be a flat and a scope version.


Believe it or not, they're still distributing ads on film and even 35mm slides to some theatres.

Not sure what they're printed on, think it's 2383 though, not WRS maybe, but there is some company that has picked up the slack.


I'll double-check next time I am around.
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#14 Dominic Case

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Posted 17 February 2010 - 06:17 AM

I doubt it takes more than a hundred feet to run daily calibrations on a machine,

Possibly. But if you lob in with a can of stock that the lab doesn't normally use, it might take two or three tests to get it lined up on the printer.

And while I think of it, a considerable amount of stock is needed to line up to print analogue soundtracks - especially if it's a new batch or different manufacturer. That certainly can run to thousands of feet, though once a level is established, routine testing is more economical.

And while all the manufacturers' print stocks are theoretically process-compatible in the ECP2 process, there are invariably fine-tuing differences that become important when you are running high-speed machines. They carry different amounts of water, for example, so the correct drying setting for one stock could be inappropriate for another. Yes, labs do routinely use both Kodak and Fuji (and, in this country, Agfa-Gevaert as well): often the distributor mandates which stock a feature is to be printed on, purely for cost reasons (the cinematographer doesn't usually get a look in at this deal).
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#15 K Borowski

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Posted 18 February 2010 - 03:18 PM

Possibly. But if you lob in with a can of stock that the lab doesn't normally use, it might take two or three tests to get it lined up on the printer.


No, you are misreading what I am saying. Of course, if someone walks in with a non-standard stock, as a one-time thing, it is a PITA.

But, if they are printing a FEATURE on Agfa, it is obviously worth it to pick up the tab, even if they have to eat the cost because they will make it up over the course of several hundred prints.


BTW, Dominic, I've been trying to get in touch with you for a time now. Please e-mail me when you get the chance or drop me a line if you have VoiP.
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#16 LVSVM

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Posted 08 March 2010 - 06:50 AM

Agfa have around 80 percent of the India cinema print market.



Hey simon are you from India? If not who said Agfa having arround 80% share in India cinema print market?
If you are from India let me know who is their authorised dealer who sell stocks in legal way?

In India western part Kodak & Agfa in south n other parts Kodak n Fujifilm Eterna positive stocks are strong. Totally kodak is dominating in India cinema print market.

There are few people who buy Agfa In India due to few resons: the only one dealer XXXXX In India offers unlimited credit facility, Very low cost(no taxes.illegal supplies)
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#17 Simon Wyss

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Posted 08 March 2010 - 01:26 PM

No, I'm not. Are you from India? LVSVM . . .

I've got the information from Mr. Haas, former sales head at Agfa-Gevaert headquarters. It is somewhat outdated and could have been exaggerated already at the time, so in need of an update. I think you'll find an ear with Agfa India private Ltd., Bombay, a 100 percent daughter of Agfa-Gevaert, Mortsel.
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