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Panavision going down for the third time?


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#1 Keith Walters

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Posted 02 March 2010 - 08:46 PM

Creditors set to gain Panavision (From the LA Times)

'Course, everybody knows the REAL reason:

"Although Panavision remains the market leader, it faces mounting competition from upstart rivals such as Red Digital Cinema, a company that makes low-cost digital cameras." :lol:

Panavision's biggest problem is, and always has been the ridiculous numbers of managers it has. Maybe a new owner will stop running it like a country club and more like a for-profit corporation, But no doubt the corporate BS machine is already warming up for the new owners....

Edited by Keith Walters, 02 March 2010 - 08:49 PM.

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#2 Brandon Whiteside

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Posted 02 March 2010 - 09:58 PM

Hahah! I read the article before I read your actual post and I laughed out loud at the same comment that you quoted.
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#3 Tom Jensen

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Posted 03 March 2010 - 11:03 AM

What's so funny. It's exactly what's happening. Panavision has an extraordinary amount of debt and they are facing mounting competition from a lot of digital manufactures such as the red camera. If you guys think otherwise, you would be wrong. Digital has cut into Panavision's income significantly.
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#4 Tom Jensen

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Posted 03 March 2010 - 11:03 AM

What's so funny. It's exactly what's happening. Panavision has an extraordinary amount of debt and they are facing mounting competition from a lot of digital manufactures such as the red camera. If you guys think otherwise, you would be wrong. Digital has cut into Panavision's income significantly.

My post was so poignant, I had to post it twice, :lol:

Edited by Tom Jensen, 03 March 2010 - 11:05 AM.

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#5 Richard Boddington

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Posted 03 March 2010 - 11:49 AM

Perhaps it's because they price themselves out of the market?

They have a Toronto office and you need to triple your camera budget to go any where near them. Mean while you can rent perfectly good Arri gear from a number of places much much cheaper.

R,
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#6 John Holland

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Posted 03 March 2010 - 12:38 PM

Its not just down to digital cameras and competition , the Panaflex is now an old camera , Arri beat then hands down on film cameras they are following Kodak down the same plug hole !!!
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#7 Tom Jensen

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Posted 03 March 2010 - 12:40 PM

Perhaps it's because they price themselves out of the market?

They have a Toronto office and you need to triple your camera budget to go any where near them. Mean while you can rent perfectly good Arri gear from a number of places much much cheaper.

R,


I like Panavision, but it is not as location friendly as Arri. It is possible that Panavision, as we know it will someday go under but the gear is here to stay and it will pop up somewhere.
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#8 Mark Dunn

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Posted 03 March 2010 - 12:44 PM

Oh dear, a very familiar story at the moment. A perfectly good business brought low by the indebtedness of its parent.
We've just lost a perfectly good liquor store chain for the same reason. Anything that restricts my access to alcohol is bad news.
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#9 Keith Walters

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Posted 03 March 2010 - 03:57 PM

Oh dear, a very familiar story at the moment. A perfectly good business brought low by the indebtedness of its parent.
We've just lost a perfectly good liquor store chain for the same reason. Anything that restricts my access to alcohol is bad news.

EMI have had to sell the Iconic Abbey Road studios (where the Beatles recorded most of their songs) because of a massively leveraged buyout, that left them with a debt of around £500 million.
The strange thing is, Ron Perelman is not responsible for most of Panavision's massive debt, most of that was piled on before he bought the place.
God knows what barrage of BS the pervious owners must have buried him under, but one could strongly suspect the words "Digital" and "Star Wars" would have been featuring prominently :lol:
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#10 Brian Rose

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Posted 03 March 2010 - 05:09 PM

I love Panavision, and I hate to see them go under. But they've got to adapt. They need to come up with their answer to the Red or the Viper, and combine it with their incredible attention to detail.

I for one would seriously considering a moderately priced HD camera from them, just so my film could say, "Filmed with Panavision Cameras and Lenses"

If Panny goes under, what would happen to those cameras? Think they'd sell 'em? If so, sign me up for a Super Panavision 70!

BR
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#11 James Martin

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Posted 03 March 2010 - 05:38 PM

I love Panavision, and I hate to see them go under. But they've got to adapt. They need to come up with their answer to the Red or the Viper, and combine it with their incredible attention to detail.

I for one would seriously considering a moderately priced HD camera from them, just so my film could say, "Filmed with Panavision Cameras and Lenses"

If Panny goes under, what would happen to those cameras? Think they'd sell 'em? If so, sign me up for a Super Panavision 70!

BR


It is my understanding that Panavision do not, and will not sell any of their kit (except T-shirts). I was told by a good friend of mine (and associate of PV) that when they acquired some film kit from a company here in the UK, they smashed up a lot of the old cameras they didn't need anymore. All part of their exclusivity I guess...
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#12 Gus Sacks

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Posted 03 March 2010 - 06:02 PM

I love Panavision, and I hate to see them go under. But they've got to adapt. They need to come up with their answer to the Red or the Viper, and combine it with their incredible attention to detail.

I for one would seriously considering a moderately priced HD camera from them, just so my film could say, "Filmed with Panavision Cameras and Lenses"

If Panny goes under, what would happen to those cameras? Think they'd sell 'em? If so, sign me up for a Super Panavision 70!

BR


Productions DO use the Genesis. I don't know how it breaks down these days between Genesis, D-21, F23/35, or any of the other "expensive" HD systems out there. But at least they do have an HD system worth mentioning.
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#13 Tom Jensen

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Posted 03 March 2010 - 06:54 PM

I love Panavision, and I hate to see them go under. But they've got to adapt. They need to come up with their answer to the Red or the Viper, and combine it with their incredible attention to detail.

I for one would seriously considering a moderately priced HD camera from them, just so my film could say, "Filmed with Panavision Cameras and Lenses"

If Panny goes under, what would happen to those cameras? Think they'd sell 'em? If so, sign me up for a Super Panavision 70!

BR

They will nevergo out of business. They would get sold at a loss. The company could possibly file for bankruptcy and restructure. But, Panavision will always have a name and a large inventory of rent-able camera gear.
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#14 John Sprung

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Posted 04 March 2010 - 03:37 AM

Productions DO use the Genesis. I don't know how it breaks down these days between Genesis, D-21, F23/35, or any of the other "expensive" HD systems out there. But at least they do have an HD system worth mentioning.


TV shows rent out so many of the Genesis systems that they run out. We have to go with F-35 or something else because we can't get 'em. It's that outside debt, not what they're doing.




-- J.S.
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#15 Keith Walters

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Posted 04 March 2010 - 05:47 AM

It's that outside debt, not what they're doing.

-- J.S.

Not just the outside debt, for years they've floundered under an unwieldy load of presidents and vice-presidents of just about every activity you could imagine. No other rental organization has anything like their management to fleet ratio. And every time they'd get told to tighten their belts, the solution was always to lay off a few more minimum-wage staff, who like as not, probably occasionally DID something. :lol:
So, yes they brought in plenty of money, but the management always seemed to find somehting to spend it (and another $10 - 20 million a year to boot) on. (Which doesn't 'alf piss off their competitors who actually have to try to make a profit competing with a company that always runs at a loss)
It would be interesting to see how Jim Jannard would run the place. He could probably pick it up for a song at the moment, and its value is sure to return. Interestingly, then they would be able to return to actually making their own cameras again.

Edited by Keith Walters, 04 March 2010 - 05:49 AM.

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#16 K Borowski

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Posted 04 March 2010 - 07:05 AM

Or. . . you could just run the company Keith. They ought elect you president right now since you have it all Figured OUT
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#17 Patrick Kaplin

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Posted 04 March 2010 - 09:48 AM

Panavision Dynamax

Have you guys seen this? What do you think will happen to the development of this sensor?
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#18 Richard Boddington

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Posted 04 March 2010 - 11:53 AM

They will nevergo out of business. They would get sold at a loss. The company could possibly file for bankruptcy and restructure. But, Panavision will always have a name and a large inventory of rent-able camera gear.


I guess Panavision was not taking notes on how to save your business from GM, Chrysler, AIG, Fanny Mae, Freddie Mac, Bank Of America..........

R,
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#19 John Sprung

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Posted 04 March 2010 - 03:59 PM

Panavision Dynamax


Interesting -- It looks like they've turned the original Genesis/F-35 pattern 45 degrees, and made the photosites smaller. Sony's doing something similar with their Q-67 sensor, only they're rotating a Bayer pattern by 45 degrees. This should be good for everything except shots with chain link fences. ;-)




-- J.S.
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#20 Keith Walters

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Posted 05 March 2010 - 12:05 AM

Or. . . you could just run the company Keith.


Even you could do a better job and you wouldn't need a green card. It would probably take them at least 9months to work out which of your ailimentary canal is most often used for communication purposes, and 9 months on their CEO's salary would probably equal ten years' normal wages for you, and then they'd probably have to throw in a couple of million more as severance pay.
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