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Super 16mm anamorphic


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#1 Eduardo Mayen

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Posted 22 March 2010 - 06:05 PM

OK, i saw the new 16mm Anamorphic Hawk Elites and they appear like they can be amazing lenses to achieve anamorphic photography on a S16mm negative, but what other options do we have?
Panavision Hollywood has a set that was made for Ché, but those are only two focal lenghts. Does anybody know where the Joe Dunton S16mm Anamorphic set ended up after the company was bought by Panavision?
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#2 Rob Vogt

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Posted 22 March 2010 - 08:08 PM

People would just use 2x anamorphic lenses for S16, then crop the sides.
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#3 Peter Martin

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Posted 24 March 2010 - 11:05 AM

As far as I know we are the only company offering very wide lenses for 16mm anamorphic origination. Hawk V-Lite16, either 2x or 1.3x squeeze: 14, 18, 24, 28, 35mm all T1.5. One can combine them with the longer Hawk V-Lites (45 to 110mm).

Peter Martin
Lens Design - Hawk Anamorphic
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#4 Eduardo Mayen

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Posted 05 April 2010 - 07:08 PM

People would just use 2x anamorphic lenses for S16, then crop the sides.

what should i use as a ground glass if i go this way?
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#5 Oliver Christoph Kochs

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Posted 05 April 2010 - 07:54 PM

Peter, i did not know that you Vantage guys show up on the forum on a regular basis. Gruesse nach Weiden ;)

Rob, i disagree. Using a 2x can be nice on R16. But why crop the sides and lose all resolution instad of using 1.5 or 1.33 squeeze lenses.

Eduardo, the Kowa 16H and Moeller Anamorphics might be appealing. The focal length starts somewhere at 25mm on these lenses. When you have a S16 gate the right squeeze for scope would be 1.33 so you could also try this or similar stuff from Century. The best choice between trashy 50s glass and video adaptors could be a Iscorama 1.5x with a 54 rear diameter.
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#6 Rob Vogt

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Posted 05 April 2010 - 11:15 PM

Rob, i disagree. Using a 2x can be nice on R16. But why crop the sides and lose all resolution instad of using 1.5 or 1.33 squeeze lenses.

Eduardo, the Kowa 16H and Moeller Anamorphics might be appealing. The focal length starts somewhere at 25mm on these lenses. When you have a S16 gate the right squeeze for scope would be 1.33 so you could also try this or similar stuff from Century. The best choice between trashy 50s glass and video adaptors could be a Iscorama 1.5x with a 54 rear diameter.



Why crop the sides? Easy, because there's no price difference between R16 and S16 for either stock, processing or telecine. Then you have the ability to reframe in post if you wanted. Also theres much more readily available 2x anamorphic lenses. Tell me where you can rent the Hawks and I'd love to try it. The old Kowa and Moeller glass just gives you a new set of headaches to worry about (you wont be able to find a monitor that can de-squeeze properly, you'd probably have to buy them if you did find them, then there might be focus issues, tilted images... ect)

As for the groundglass you can get custom ones made by Panavision or probably from Bernie O.. (they probably have a 1:33 available at all rental houses which is what you'd need but if you'd need to frame for 2:35 and 16:9 youd need a skinnier set of lines with a common center for the 16:9), you can get a monitor to de-squeeze for reference if you want also.
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#7 Eduardo Mayen

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 01:22 AM

before anything, thank you oliver and thank you rob for all the suggestions.
i'm actually lenaing more towards the solution that rob suggests, for a couple of reason.
one, is that one, which already has been mentioned the 2x lenses are easier to find.
two, i like a more dramatic fall off of the depth of field, the 1.3 and the 1.5 squeeze are not enough for me, and
three, i don't mind zooming into the image and gettting less resolution, i'm actually trying to see as much grain as i can, i want it to look like a film that was shot 4o years ago.

going back to the ground glass, i spoke to the boys at Panavision and they suggested that i get a 1.66 ground glass to accomondate for the super 16mm gate size, and then they would get me a eyepiece and a video tap that would unsqueeze th eimage to 2:35 for me for reference on set.
does that sound right? Rob what do you mean by the 1:33 and 16:9?
for a final unsqueeze 2:35 image, the 2x lenses should aim at a 1.66 target, correct?
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#8 Keneu Luca

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 02:32 AM

Here is a R16 2x kowa experiment I did a year ago with an ARRI S. For what I was trying to do, the very limited equipment I was able to use, and various other restrictions (and there were many), it is both a success and a failure.

Despite the failures and various flaws, I still enjoy watching it every now and then.


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#9 Saul Rodgar

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 04:12 AM

Here is a R16 2x kowa experiment I did a year ago with an ARRI S. For what I was trying to do, the very limited equipment I was able to use, and various other restrictions (and there were many), it is both a success and a failure.

Despite the failures and various flaws, I still enjoy watching it every now and then.


Nice. Was it a Kowa anamorphic adapter or a lens? I have one of the adapters, haven't used it yet. I'd be interested to know how the adapter (if you used one) was mounted on the camera / lens. Thanks.
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#10 Eduardo Mayen

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 10:44 PM

As far as I know we are the only company offering very wide lenses for 16mm anamorphic origination. Hawk V-Lite16, either 2x or 1.3x squeeze: 14, 18, 24, 28, 35mm all T1.5. One can combine them with the longer Hawk V-Lites (45 to 110mm).

Peter Martin
Lens Design - Hawk Anamorphic


hello peter,
who in america has these lenses? i'm based in Los Angeles and i've contacted Otto Nemenz, Clairmont Camera and Camtech and they don't seem have them yet, would love to take them for test drive. who could i contact?
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#11 Eduardo Mayen

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 01:44 AM

People would just use 2x anamorphic lenses for S16, then crop the sides.

what should the ground glass look like?

Edited by Eduardo Mayen, 30 April 2010 - 01:44 AM.

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#12 jeroenvanderpoel

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Posted 13 June 2010 - 08:02 AM

For a short which will be shot in one take on a 60m long track, and during the magic moment of dusk,
we found out after some incidental and spot meter readings that we should end up with 35mm 500t film pushed one stop. During this 8 minutes short, the light will decrease one stop, and we love that transition.
Also after shooting and analyzing some pilots, we found out that we wanted to end up to a 2.39:1 aspect ratio.
Because we need to shoot this budget film in one take (we shoot two days, so we will choose the best take),
a 400ft 35mm roll would do the job on 2 perf. The only camera available in The Netherlands is the well known ''Penelope 35mm 2 perf cam'', but this camera is to expensive for our budget (about 2400 euro's for 2 days),
shooting on 3perf which is less expensive because of the camera rent (we can make some tight deals),but unfortunately it's not an option at all, due to the need of more film (800ft/1000ft), so this is a less cost effective option.
Owing my own eclair acl s16mm camera and the love to the s16mm format, would make me rather go for this option then the 35mm option. a other great thing is that we dont have to push the film because of the larger shallow of depth of the format. I would love to work with a 12,5 mm cooke kinetal. But!! I dont want to crop on s16mm, I would hate myself so much for doing that. So the only option would be a anamorphic lens, which would squeeze on s16mm en which would end up to a 2.39:1 aspect ratio.
all the help would be great!
nice and kind regards
Jeroen van der Poel
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