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#1 Thomas Winston

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Posted 26 March 2010 - 02:27 PM

Is there any rough timeline on delivery of the Epic/Scarlet cameras?

At the risk of starting some sort of reduser holy war for asking this question, I thought I may get a more level-headed answer over here. I know nobody has a definite answer, just wondering what the ballpark is these days?

thanks!

Thomas Winston
grizzlycreekfilms.com
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#2 Stephen Williams

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Posted 26 March 2010 - 02:37 PM

Is there any rough timeline on delivery of the Epic/Scarlet cameras?

At the risk of starting some sort of reduser holy war for asking this question, I thought I may get a more level-headed answer over here. I know nobody has a definite answer, just wondering what the ballpark is these days?

thanks!

Thomas Winston
grizzlycreekfilms.com


Hi Thomas,

There is no date, every time frame proposed so far has been too optimistic. Unless your an existing customer I doubt you will have a chance to buy either this year, sometime in 2011 possibly. Red One was very late, Scarlet even later, I would not bother worrying until 6 months after the first Epic beta test cameras are released.

Stephen
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#3 Trevor Swaim

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Posted 26 March 2010 - 02:49 PM

At one point Jim said that if the scarlet wasn't out by the end of this summer he would kill himself. I have a feeling he should start shopping for a coffin.
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#4 Stephen Williams

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Posted 26 March 2010 - 03:36 PM

At one point Jim said that if the scarlet wasn't out by the end of this summer he would kill himself. I have a feeling he should start shopping for a coffin.


I guess reality is finally hitting home, I got banned for questioning if specs would be met, a few weeks later Jim announced that 1 spec (2 sec start up time) would not be met, funny old world.
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#5 Thomas Winston

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Posted 26 March 2010 - 04:19 PM

Hi Thomas,

There is no date, every time frame proposed so far has been too optimistic. Unless your an existing customer I doubt you will have a chance to buy either this year, sometime in 2011 possibly. Red One was very late, Scarlet even later, I would not bother worrying until 6 months after the first Epic beta test cameras are released.

Stephen


Thanks for the info, Stephen. It's very helpful as I develop and budget future projects. I'll be fine with a our Varicam 3700 and some Phantom rental days in the meantime...
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#6 Jim Jannard

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Posted 27 March 2010 - 11:12 AM

I guess reality is finally hitting home, I got banned for questioning if specs would be met, a few weeks later Jim announced that 1 spec (2 sec start up time) would not be met, funny old world.


Stephen... 1st off, you didn't get banned. You got a few hour "timeout". 2nd... it wasn't for questioning if the specs would be met.

Jim
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#7 Tim Carroll

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Posted 27 March 2010 - 12:37 PM

Mr. Jannard,

The original question was:

Is there any rough timeline on delivery of the Epic/Scarlet cameras?

You take the time to indignantly correct Stephen, but don't take the time to answer the original post. Why is that? RED is your company, if anyone should be able to shed some light on the Epic/Scarlet timeline, it should be you. Why are you avoiding that question?

Best,
-Tim
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#8 Stephen Williams

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Posted 27 March 2010 - 12:42 PM

Stephen... 1st off, you didn't get banned. You got a few hour "timeout". 2nd... it wasn't for questioning if the specs would be met.

Jim


Hi Jim,

The attached jpeg screen grab uses the words 'banned' & 'date the ban will be lifted 02-02-2012, 5.00pm, so it was indeed a ban of 2 years, and not a timeout, unless of course the ban got extended after the original timeout.

I will attach a link where I was questioning you on 100 fps @ 5K as a current option, a couple of pages earlier of the same thread, perhaps it will jog your memory.

Best

Stephen

Edit, it all started with 'Hi Jim, Did I miss something? Stephen' Post 35
http://www.reduser.n...h...0095&page=4

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#9 Michael Kubaszak

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Posted 27 March 2010 - 12:55 PM

when you start a message board about your product aren't you inviting all praise AND questions about your product/company and everything that has to do with either? Isn't to your advantage to be honest with the people who purchase and/or use your product?

I'm shocked that a moderator on this board would be banned on a cinematography related site. I'm also shocked to see that there was no reason given as to why he was b7.
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#10 Thomas Dobbie

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 02:35 PM

Hi Stephen,

Followed your link to the discussion on RedUser,reading through it confirmed why I haven't visited that forum for over a year,other than for the software updates posted by Jim.
Of course I'm banned,but that's by the way.
I did have to laugh at you being branded a troll,well!,perhaps a polite,gentleman troll.
Sorry we missed each other in Zurich last week,great studio though.

To get back to the original question,I'm a Red owner and I wouldn't base any job upon Red's timeframe.Use what's available at the time you need to shoot.
I used to laugh at the now famous disclaimer Jim gives at the end of his post's "Everything in life changes... including our camera specs and delivery dates..." believe me it's true.
Having said that,buying Red was the correct decision for me,but not for everybody.
They're a frustrating company to deal with,but I must be honest,and say that they've ultimately delivered what they said they would.
Just a couple of years down the line,LOL.
As to delivery dates on the up & coming cameras,I'm not holding my breath.
Even as an owner,I don't expect my camera to be upgraded to MX for at least another 6 months,and I don't think I'll have an Epic in my hands before this time next year.
I did however have an Arri Alexa on my shoulder 2 weeks ago,and it's a very impressive camera.
I fully expect Arri to meet their published delivery times,but Arri are a very special company.
I'm still waiting on my M9 from Leica.
Shades of Red!!!!

Tom.
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#11 Jim Jannard

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 02:52 PM

Mr. Jannard,

The original question was:

Is there any rough timeline on delivery of the Epic/Scarlet cameras?

You take the time to indignantly correct Stephen, but don't take the time to answer the original post. Why is that? RED is your company, if anyone should be able to shed some light on the Epic/Scarlet timeline, it should be you. Why are you avoiding that question?

Best,
-Tim


Not avoiding the question... the answer is they will be delivered when they are ready. We are late... as we have acknowledged and has been posted here. Current thinking is early summer. We have working prototypes now and they will be shown at NAB (Tropicana). The complete list of sequence is posted on reduser... didn't feel the need to repost it here.

I post on reduser every day (most every day) to keep our customers as up to date as possible. I really don't have the time to do that on every board so info like this is best found there. If you don't like the noise on that board, I have set up a reduser/recon/tips&thoughts thread with no posted comments for quicker viewing.

Jim
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#12 Tim Carroll

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 05:38 PM

Not avoiding the question... the answer is they will be delivered when they are ready. We are late... as we have acknowledged and has been posted here. Current thinking is early summer. We have working prototypes now and they will be shown at NAB (Tropicana). The complete list of sequence is posted on reduser... didn't feel the need to repost it here.

Jim


That's what I was looking for, Thanks.

Best,
-Tim
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#13 Keith Walters

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 05:54 PM

Followed your link to the discussion on RedUser,reading through it confirmed why I haven't visited that forum for over a year,other than

for the software updates posted by Jim.
Of course I'm banned,but that's by the way.
I did have to laugh at you being branded a troll,well!,perhaps a polite,gentleman troll.


Yeah I can't really handle that forum any more either.
Trouble is you never know when Emmanuel, Jan von Krogh or one of his other like-minded colleagues is going to post something profound. :lol:

It's sad, but I'm getting on in years; bladder control not what it used to be, can't always make it to the bathroom in time etc. There's just too much preparation involved. Remembering not to drink anything for at least an hour beforehand, trying to pick a time when at least one bathroom is likely to be free (not easy with three females in the household; you'd think that three toilets would be plenty, but no).

I tried taking my laptop down to my backyard shed, but people began to wonder what I was downloading in there so I had to stop. I used to have a large pack of incontinence pads in the storeroom, left over from when we had a 90 year old man staying with us on respite care, but I used all those up during the recent Stephen Williams "Timeout" episode. (They were also good for soaking up oil spills from my garage floor!)

I just can't handle going into the local Pharmacy and asking for a jumbo pack of incontinence pads, (although I could just pretend they're for "somebody else" I suppose). :rolleyes:
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#14 Thomas Dobbie

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 06:34 PM

Yeah I can't really handle that forum any more either.
Trouble is you never know when Emmanuel, Jan von Krogh or one of his other like-minded colleagues is going to post something profound. :lol:

It's sad, but I'm getting on in years; bladder control not what it used to be, can't always make it to the bathroom in time etc. There's just too much preparation involved. Remembering not to drink anything for at least an hour beforehand, trying to pick a time when at least one bathroom is likely to be free (not easy with three females in the household; you'd think that three toilets would be plenty, but no).

I tried taking my laptop down to my backyard shed, but people began to wonder what I was downloading in there so I had to stop. I used to have a large pack of incontinence pads in the storeroom, left over from when we had a 90 year old man staying with us on respite care, but I used all those up during the recent Stephen Williams "Timeout" episode. (They were also good for soaking up oil spills from my garage floor!)

I just can't handle going into the local Pharmacy and asking for a jumbo pack of incontinence pads, (although I could just pretend they're for "somebody else" I suppose). :rolleyes:


Keith,

Off topic,but WTF,your post reminded me of what a good friend of mine said at my 50th,sadly it's becoming more appropriate as I rapidly approach my 60th.
Three rules for the older man.
1 - Never pass the up the opportunity of visiting the toilet,and plan your trips accordingly.The bladder isn't what it was.
2 - Never trust a fart,you may get more than expect
3 - And most important,NEVER waste a hard on,even if your on your own. :lol:

Regards
Tom.
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#15 Thomas Winston

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 07:12 PM

The complete list of sequence is posted on reduser... didn't feel the need to repost it here.

Jim


Jim- Thanks for taking the time to answer the question on this site. What do you mean by 'the complete list of sequences'? I couldn't find anything about an updated timeframe in my brief search on reduser. Can you pass on a link to that thread?

Thanks!

Thomas Winston
www.grizzlycreekfilms.com
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#16 Emanuel A Guedes

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 07:45 PM

Keith,

Off topic,but WTF,your post reminded me of what a good friend of mine said at my 50th,sadly it's becoming more appropriate as I rapidly approach my 60th.
Three rules for the older man.
1 - Never pass the up the opportunity of visiting the toilet,and plan your trips accordingly.The bladder isn't what it was.
2 - Never trust a fart,you may get more than expect
3 - And most important,NEVER waste a hard on,even if your on your own. :lol:

(...)


Here is an useful advice to you Keith. :lol:
K., considering the number of times you're used to post my name mispelled even when I, like Jan or many others, don't bother to post in order to answer you, I should take seriously to put you on my payroll list though.
It can happen to be a fulfillment to read you. ;)
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#17 Keith Walters

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Posted 04 April 2010 - 07:01 PM

Here is an useful advice to you Keith. :lol:
K., considering the number of times you're used to post my name mispelled even when I, like Jan or many others, don't bother to post in order to answer you, I should take seriously to put you on my payroll list though.
It can happen to be a fulfillment to read you. ;)

Sorry, no time to try to figure out what you're saying this time, but thanks for your input.

Gotta go.
Jim's just got his 1st Epic running.
All us "RED-Haters on C.com" now have to projectile-vomit, burn our clothes, scrub our mouths out with laundry soap, and then sit naked and sobbing in the shower for a few hours. :lol:
(Not sure why, but that was the general impression I got on REDUSER; suppose we should thank them for the Heads Up).
Anyway, there's probably going to be a bit of a queue, and I want to get there before the hot water runs out...
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#18 Saul Rodgar

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Posted 04 April 2010 - 08:32 PM

Not just Red haters need to act in penance, but pretty much every other manufacturer of non-future designated cameras and film (except for Arri). ;)
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#19 Keith Walters

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Posted 05 April 2010 - 05:54 AM

Not just Red haters need to act in penance, but pretty much every other manufacturer of non-future designated cameras and film (except for Arri). ;)

I suspect there are plenty of owners of "non-future designated cameras" out there who would venture to disagree, but they're probably too busy working to come to the phone :rolleyes:

Trouble is the Future is not usually the issue.

Any new product has to be respectful of the existing industry infrastructure, otherwise it doesn't get invited to too many parties. And, the future rarely turns out to be the one that early adopters ordered....
Consider the D-1 format...
Consider the MII format...
Consider the PC vs the Mac.

I have a genuine 1985 IBM PC-XT in my attic. It still runs, although with a text-only green-screen monitor.
But you can still run useful software on it, and more importantly, all of the 80s-vintage DOS-based software will also run on my two-year-old Laptop under Windows XP, (although not with a modern printer, but you can get emulation drivers). I've also run Windows 3.1 applications under XP, Vista, and Windows 7, which suggests that the DOS apps probably will as well, if I could be bothered reactivting enough old clunkers to get from 360K floppies to a flash drive.

In the great unwashed Industrial landscape that most of you are blissfully unaware of, there are millions of machine-control software packages written for DOS-based machines in the 1980s that work just fine as far as their owners are concerned, and it's far cheaper to either shoe-horn new computers into the existing infrastructure, or more often, pay what seems to be an over-the-top price to keep their old computers running. In fact spare parts for old computers (and I mean REALLY old, like 60s and 70s vintage) is big business these days. You can also get all sorts of USB-to-whatever adaptors specifically designed for this sort of application. (Yes, you can even get USB to 5.25" floppy drive adaptors!)

Compare this with the Mac format. Every few years they completely change their operating system so that older software no longer works. The Mac format makes only a miroscopic segment of the market; this is one reason why. I know there are quite a few video systems out there that are Mac-based but with those, you have no choice but to keep the same model hardware running, unless you want to spend ludicrous amounts of money on a possibly buggy software upgrade. There is no option of running old software on new computers with Mac based systems.

A huge segment of the world's industrial base runs on computer systems more than 20 years old (in some cases, a lot more :lol: ) As like as not, most if not all of your credit card transactions are processed on COBOL software written in the 1960s/1970s to run on transistor computers, with much less processing power than a $5 flash drive.

2 things you need to understand:

1. You have to be respectful of the existing installed industry base.
2. It does not have to be respectful of you.
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#20 John Sprung

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Posted 05 April 2010 - 04:26 PM

I have a genuine 1985 IBM PC-XT in my attic. It still runs, although with a text-only green-screen monitor.


I have several original PC's and XT's in storage. My thinking in keeping them was that some day, they'd be like the Ford Model "T" -- the first of their kind to make it big. I used to write assembly language for them, modify the ROM BIOS, etc.




-- J.S.
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