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About these damn camera reports/loading.


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#1 Luc Allein

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Posted 02 April 2010 - 02:38 PM

Yesterday I started on a small easy job loading for 35mm. Problem is, I havent loaded in a year, and before THAT it was a year too. I loaded for a while fairly regularly for a few months in 07, and that was it. I forgot most of the damn paperwork protocol. I spent most of the last year working in digital and dealing with BNC cable as opposed to film mags.

I have the biggest problem tabulating the friggin numbers on the reports

In the "Good" column, what do you add up there? It's the circled takes, right? If there's no scripty or it's "print all", how does it work then? I totally forget.

The No Good column is only for features, right? Thats when you add up the numbers that aren't circled? If I remember, this column doesnt usually get used, right?

Waste, I pretty much know how that one works. And Total is fairly obvious. But I keep fudging it because I dont know how to get the proper "Good" amount.

How do all these work again?
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#2 Satsuki Murashige

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Posted 02 April 2010 - 04:14 PM

If you're doing circle takes, then "Good" is the total footage of all the circle takes. If it's print all, then "Good" is everything, minus "Waste" or "Short End." You're right, "No Good" is only used if you're doing circle takes, in which case it is the total of all the non-circle takes.

You include "Waste" in the "Total" so that the latter adds up to 400' or 1000', minus any short ends.

Additionally, don't fill out the footage loaded for a mag on the daily film inventory form until you get the mag back for downloading, otherwise you'll go crazy trying to keep track of the remaining stock while including what's already been loaded but not used. Learned that one the hard way.
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#3 Luc Allein

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Posted 02 April 2010 - 06:23 PM

If you're doing circle takes, then "Good" is the total footage of all the circle takes. If it's print all, then "Good" is everything, minus "Waste" or "Short End." You're right, "No Good" is only used if you're doing circle takes, in which case it is the total of all the non-circle takes.

You include "Waste" in the "Total" so that the latter adds up to 400' or 1000', minus any short ends.

Additionally, don't fill out the footage loaded for a mag on the daily film inventory form until you get the mag back for downloading, otherwise you'll go crazy trying to keep track of the remaining stock while including what's already been loaded but not used. Learned that one the hard way.


Awesome, thank you.
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#4 Jamie Metzger

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 12:33 AM

do as much paperwork as needed to keep yourself sharp.
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#5 Luc Allein

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 12:12 AM

Here's more of a question.

At the end of the day, youre adding up all your camera reports on your film inventory sheet, how do you add them the right way?

My Inventory sheet is pretty simple. It has the column headings going across: "Roll" , "Amount", "Good", "NG", "Waste" , "Total", and "Short End".

I know you start with the "Amount", what you looded. For the "Good" column, I know how to do that too. (Say you rolled 380 ft on a 400 ft short end. The "Good" is 380; the "Waste" is 20ft) "NG" is for when we do circled takes, which we aren't doing on this. This brings me to the dreaded "Total" column at the end.

What is the "Total". Is it just the number from the "Good" column brought over? I'm guessing "Total" is the amount of film you're actually sending to the lab. So if 380 was "Good" out of a 400ft roll, is that also then the "Total"? Or is there some sort of formula to get the "Totatl"? None of my damn numbers are adding up right, so Im doing something wrong. Even though I know how much film I actually have, my paperwork never seems to reflect it properly. If I knew what the hell went in that "Total" column, I'd have a better handle.

Question #2 is, assuming I figure out how to do the "Total" column properly, how do I then come to the proper "Balance" of today? I remember a loader telling me there was a formula to get it, and there were ways to check your math too. Like "Your 'Good' + your 'Waste' should equal your 'Amount" or something like that.

How does this work?? What do I add up to get the proper balance? Im really close to having it but Im just a little off and it's messing up the works and quite pissing me off. If this has made any sense to anyone, and I can get you to make some kind of heads or tails of it, I'd buy you a Starbucks coffee in return. Or meet with you at a Starbucks so you can you look at my stupid paperwork quick and then tell me what the hell I'm doing wrong. (Then I'd buy you coffee AND a muffin.)

Thanks guys. Love ya's.
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#6 Luc Allein

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 12:22 AM

"(Say you rolled 380 ft on a 400 ft short end. The "Good" is 380; the "Waste" is...."

*I made a typo on that post above, I meant to say "400ft roll", not "short end". There's no goddamn "edit" feature in these posts. I didnt wanna make that post any more confusing than it probably already is.
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#7 Tom Jensen

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 10:57 AM

Is this going to telecine or print?
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#8 Luc Allein

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 01:08 PM

Is this going to telecine or print?


It's "Print All", and "Prep for Telecine".
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#9 Christine Hodinh

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 01:58 PM

Your "total" reflects the sum of all G, NG and W footage--in other words, if you shot 400' with G=380' and W=20', T would be 400'. The only instance that T would not equal the amount of footage loaded would be if you had a SE. For example, if you loaded a 400' roll and shot 120' to print, your numbers would be G=120', NG=0, W=0, T=120, SE=280. Hope that helps.
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#10 Luc Allein

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 02:50 PM

Your "total" reflects the sum of all G, NG and W footage--in other words, if you shot 400' with G=380' and W=20', T would be 400'. The only instance that T would not equal the amount of footage loaded would be if you had a SE. For example, if you loaded a 400' roll and shot 120' to print, your numbers would be G=120', NG=0, W=0, T=120, SE=280. Hope that helps.


Hell yes. Thank you so much, it def helps. Ive been trying to get these questions answered on set for days, but everyone is either too busy or gives me a very vague explanation & goes through it way too quick. To make it worse, of the 2 guys I asked, I got two different responses which confused me even more.

So that's one question down. How do I get the proper balance for the day then? I know there's a formula to it, just like there's a formula to get my "Total" on the camera reports. What do I add & subtract to get the proper balance for the day?
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#11 Christine Hodinh

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 07:02 PM

This forum post came up today when I was searching for something else, so I thought I'd append the messages that passed between Luc and me shortly after the last post here. I hope someone finds this useful, and I only care to point out that what I said about being forced to can out a roll off a Panavision camera is not necessarily true, silly 2010 me.

-------

from Luc Allein, 9 April 2010

I have 2 quick questions:

1. On the actual camera report, besides what you told me in the post, what do I do with "waste"? Does it get added in to get that "Total"? Like if on a 400' roll, you had 280 good, 20' waste, then 100' short end, would my "Total" then be 300'? (The 280' Good + the 20' Waste?)

2. At the end of the day, on my inventory, do you know the formula or what I'm supposed to add and subtract as far as subject headings go (the Amount, Good, NG, Waste, Total, SE) to get my proper balance of the day? I used to know it and now I don't, it's driving me nuts. I kept trying to mess around with it and come up with the # just from looking at my remaining film stock and what I'd shot that day but still couldnt. Its driving me insane.

Thanks again for helpin me out, I really appreciate it. You seriously helped me a lot yesterday.

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from Christine Hodinh, 9 April 2010

Camera Report
I do the same thing on the report that I'd do on the inventory. So you're right, 280' G + 20' W would be a 300' Total. Some camera reports have a SE form underneath the space for total, so it would be something like

G: 280
NG:
W: 20
Total: 300
SE: 100


but in most cases you can just assume there will be a 100' SE, if there's 100' unaccounted for on the report.

Daily Inventory
I'm a little confused about your troubles with the inventory, so I'll just tell you how I do it. Most inventory forms have a space for the stock, roll #, footage loaded, and the same categories you'd find on the bottom of the report: G, NG, W, Total, and SE.

Stock is the emulsion type you're shooting. Some loaders do different inventories for each stock, so they have a clear idea of how much they've shot of 7219 and 7207, e.g., but I wouldn't do that unless you had several different stocks to keep track of.

Roll number is pretty clear; keep them in numerical order.

Loaded: if you're shooting with 400' cans, the number would be 400'. Let's say for roll A3 you have a 260' SE--in that case, you'd put 260 in the Loaded category.

Good, No Good, Waste and Total are the same as you put them in the camera reports. Make sure the numbers match up. Don't put anything in the SE category unless you created a SE from that roll, and remember--when you can out a short end, do not to assign it a roll number until you hand the mag to the 1st, just like with any other can.

*If this applies to you: you may take a mag off the camera (I'm not sure what camera you're on) and not break the film, say with an SR3. If the 1st tells you she wants to leave it hot, then the mag gets capped and the roll number stays the same (we'll call it roll A7). The same report for A7 is kept with the mag.

When A7 gets put back on the camera at some later point, on paper it's as if the mag was never removed, otherwise the paperwork will drive you crazy. The only things you need to do to remind yourself about it is 1) label the case so you know when you look at it is how much film A7 has left on it, and 2) when it gets put back on the camera it's treated as if it's a short end (meaning you are always aware that it's not a full roll, but that's it: the paperwork reads like like nothing happened).

*If you're on a camera where the film needs to be threaded with every mag, like a GII, whenever the mag comes off the film is broken. You CANNOT do what I just mentioned; even though the unexposed film can be shot later it automatically becomes a short end because it's now separated from roll A7. I'm sure you already know that, but I thought I should mention it.


Now when you do your totals at the end of the day, you usually just do it for Loaded, G, NG, W, Total and SE. If you've only shot new cans, the Loaded total should be a multiple of whatever size rolls you've been shooting (as in, if you're only shooting 400' rolls it'll be evenly divisible by 400). If you have shot SEs during the day the number can be anything.

Add up the footage from each of the categories. You said you're printing everything so there wouldn't be any NG footage, just G, W, Total and SE (if applicable). That all gets put in the totals row for "Today". If this were Day 1, the same amount would be Total to Date, because it's the only thing you've shot so far. For Day 2, the "Previous (+)" row are the amounts from Day 1's "Total to Date" row, and so on--that is, for every new day you shoot, the "Previous" amounts are whatever the day before's "total to date" amounts were.

It's important, if you do your calculations at the end of the night, to show up and go over those numbers again in the morning. A lot of the time you're tired and you may have made a mistake. Always use a calculator!

Raw Stock Inventory
You usually also need to keep a Film on Hand/Raw Stock inventory. For Day 1, "Previous" would be 0, "Received" is however much you got from the producers (for 5 x 400' rolls, you would put 2000'), Used Today is the "Total" amount from the daily inventory (because the producers/DP want to know how much film was shot, so it would be G + NG + W).

"Total" Film on Hand = "Previous" (+) "Received" (-) "Used"

That "Total" from the raw stock/film on hand would then go into the "Previous" field for Day 2, and so on.

Notes
All this information is pretty standard, but it can be tough to keep track of. Always stay on top of your paperwork, and use the downtime to double-check your numbers. You have to stay later than most anyway, and if you've been keeping up during the day you'll have less to do at the end of the night.

One problem you may be having can stem from the reports. If you are not the 2nd, make sure he is rounding to the nearest 10 feet. Putting footage in 5' increments saves minimal film, and it causes more problems than it helps. It's probably too late to fix the old reports but you might want to start doing that, if you're not already, with any new reports. Remember, always round to the nearest 10 feet when writing footage on the report.

I highly recommend getting David Elkins's book, "The Camera Assistant's Manual". He goes over, line by line, how to fill out several types of reports and inventory forms. It should help you immensely.

If your numbers are wrong in the beginning they'll be wrong throughout the whole show--after you've read this I suggest you take a little time, get new blank paperwork and start over from Day 1, at least with your inventory. Wite-out can only help so much if you need to redo every number.

Sorry if anything is confusing; I tried to make it as concise as I could. Let me know if you have any more questions, and good luck with the show.

Christine
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