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so we are losing 7265 and 7231 Plus-x


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#1 Richard Tuohy

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Posted 05 April 2010 - 07:39 PM

Kodak have announced the discontinuation of 7265 plus-x reversal (in 16mm and Super 8) as well as Plus-x Neg in 16mm and 35mm.
Its a sad day.
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#2 Oliver Christoph Kochs

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Posted 05 April 2010 - 07:58 PM

You are kidding, ohhhhhhh noooooooo!!!!
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#3 Charles MacDonald

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Posted 05 April 2010 - 08:08 PM

Kodak have announced the discontinuation of 7265 plus-x reversal (in 16mm and Super 8) as well as Plus-x Neg in 16mm and 35mm.
Its a sad day.

particularly when they were braging that they had spent a lot of time designing the new version to work with the newer bleach. Going through the change notices, we did get a tip off in February whne they added Tri-X reversal in Regular 8 X 400 ft.
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#4 Jim Carlile

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Posted 05 April 2010 - 10:10 PM

Have they actually announced it yet, or is this just inferred from their Super 8 page, where they announced E100D today and left out any mention of Plus-X and 64T?

Wonder if Double-X neg will survive? That's a 70-year-old film.
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#5 Charles MacDonald

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Posted 05 April 2010 - 10:24 PM

Have they actually announced it yet, or is this just inferred from their Super 8 page, where they announced E100D today and left out any mention of Plus-X and 64T?

Wonder if Double-X neg will survive? That's a 70-year-old film.

yes, in PCN040710
http://motion.kodak....PCN040710_Q.pdf
For now it looks like DXN is the "suggested replacement" for PXN..
and TXR is Suggested to replace PXR

(PCN020310 added TXR in Regular 8...)

other changes are also listed in other files at
http://motion.kodak....ation/index.htm
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#6 Jim Carlile

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Posted 05 April 2010 - 10:28 PM

Yup, it's been confirmed. Here's the new discontinued list:

http://motion.kodak....PCN040710_Q.pdf

Man, 100-foot rolls of 16 have taken a hit, too !

Well, that means so long, Plus-X reversal dream girl....


Posted Image
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#7 Freya Black

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 12:25 PM

It doesn't suprise me to see a cut back on double perf daylight spools but 5219 in 65mm. That seems a bit scary. Maybe it is still available in other lengths tho?

Still reeling from the plus-x news.

love

Freya
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#8 Robert Houllahan

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 01:28 PM

F**K 31 is one of my favorite films stupid kodak..


-Rob
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#9 Todd Anderson

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 04:57 PM

I just got off the phone with Kodak sales at the Hollywood location. And after a little confusion on the sales persons part, they seemed to confirm to me that 5231 / 7231 Plus-X is going away. So it doesn't appear to be a misprint. Double-X doesn't seem to be on the chopping block as of yet.

But I'm with the camp that I would rather see 5222 / 7222 disappear first instead of 5231 / 7231. And I said this much on the phone (alas, just one vote)

Anyhow one good with starting petitions or have any good ideas on how to relay the information to Kodak?

Todd
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#10 Chris Burke

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 04:58 PM

Now Fuji ought to market their Neopan Motion Picture film here in the US. Has anyone on this site ever used it?
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#11 Bill DiPietra

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 10:22 PM

I just got off the phone with Kodak sales at the Hollywood location. And after a little confusion on the sales persons part, they seemed to confirm to me that 5231 / 7231 Plus-X is going away. So it doesn't appear to be a misprint. Double-X doesn't seem to be on the chopping block as of yet.

But I'm with the camp that I would rather see 5222 / 7222 disappear first instead of 5231 / 7231. And I said this much on the phone (alas, just one vote)

Anyhow one good with starting petitions or have any good ideas on how to relay the information to Kodak?

Todd



I am EXTREMELY upset about this. I shoot regular 16mm and I've always preferred B&W over color. I have worked with both 7231 and 7222 and I have to agree that I'd rather see 7222 go. I just finished a film on 7231 and it is an absolutely BEAUTIFUL stock. I can't believe that Kodak is eliminating ALL of the Plus-X negative stocks. As I said in another post, that seems rather drastic.

I am going to send them a corporate letter protesting this. To be forced to shoot on 7222 is unacceptable and limits filmmakers' options.
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#12 Colum O Dwyer

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Posted 07 April 2010 - 10:46 AM

Now Fuji ought to market their Neopan Motion Picture film here in the US. Has anyone on this site ever used it?


That's one of my dreams, to shot 16mm on Neopan.

They should be doing it already, it's not like they aren't producing sheets of the stuff.
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#13 Chris Burke

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Posted 07 April 2010 - 12:24 PM

That's one of my dreams, to shot 16mm on Neopan.

They should be doing it already, it's not like they aren't producing sheets of the stuff.



where is it sold? Asia only? Imagine Acros in 16mm.
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#14 Todd Anderson

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Posted 07 April 2010 - 12:54 PM

Hey Bill,

If you have a specific e-mail address to corporate, perhaps it is worth while for as many people from the board to send off their concern on the matter to Kodak.

Maybe we can start a new thread in the General Discussion area entitled, "Petition for non- discontinuation of Kodak 5231 / 7231", or what have you.

I woke up this morning and it pretty much set it: their decision is ridiculous. Their black and white stocks are the only thing left that clearly look like classic film stocks. While the newer color stocks have great latitude, they are so clean they can verge on the side of looking digital at times. Making a Vision3 stock "b&w" at the digital intermediate stage or during telecine does not even come close to looking like 5231 / 7231. I just telecine such a test at 2K, and the results were night and day. You might as well just shoot digital and make it B&W.

I wish Kodak would market "classic stocks" (5231 / 7231, and older EXR stocks, as well) as an alternative to the digital look and there own fine grained stocks.

Yes, it is understood that I'm sure their stock holders are pulling the strings here. But in the end, as it is for the still market, their only market will be the film enthusiast, fine artist, hobbyists, etc. after large hollywood productions stop using film. Black and White stocks are HUGE for this former crowd.

This is happening way too silent.

Todd

P.S.: Didn't Fuji or Ilford use to make a low speed B&W motion stock for the states, as well? Is there any other alternatives?
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#15 Bill DiPietra

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Posted 07 April 2010 - 02:28 PM

Hey Bill,

If you have a specific e-mail address to corporate, perhaps it is worth while for as many people from the board to send off their concern on the matter to Kodak.

Maybe we can start a new thread in the General Discussion area entitled, "Petition for non- discontinuation of Kodak 5231 / 7231", or what have you.

I woke up this morning and it pretty much set it: their decision is ridiculous. Their black and white stocks are the only thing left that clearly look like classic film stocks. While the newer color stocks have great latitude, they are so clean they can verge on the side of looking digital at times. Making a Vision3 stock "b&w" at the digital intermediate stage or during telecine does not even come close to looking like 5231 / 7231. I just telecine such a test at 2K, and the results were night and day. You might as well just shoot digital and make it B&W.

I wish Kodak would market "classic stocks" (5231 / 7231, and older EXR stocks, as well) as an alternative to the digital look and there own fine grained stocks.

Yes, it is understood that I'm sure their stock holders are pulling the strings here. But in the end, as it is for the still market, their only market will be the film enthusiast, fine artist, hobbyists, etc. after large hollywood productions stop using film. Black and White stocks are HUGE for this former crowd.

This is happening way too silent.

Todd

P.S.: Didn't Fuji or Ilford use to make a low speed B&W motion stock for the states, as well? Is there any other alternatives?



Todd,

I completely agree with everything you said. I shoot primarily black and white stills and 16mm film. Even people who are totally immersed in the digital world still marvel at the beauty of Kodak's B&W stocks. As my friend aptly stated, "Black and white gives it this dreamy quality."

I've seen the way digital attempts to imitate B&W and it is a sacrilege. There is still no real way to digitally capture the range and texture that Kodak's B&W stocks offer. Digital has a better handle on the color spectrum in my opinion. The Vision stocks are very nice, but I don't understand why, when they produce so many color stocks and only 2 B&W stocks, that they would decide to cut one ENTIRE B&W stock. As I said before, this greatly limits filmmakers options.

In the end, as you said, it all comes down to numbers (especially in this economy.) If there aren't enough people buying the stuff, off it goes. But this announcement comes at the same time as the introduction of a new Super 8 stock, which I find rather odd. Super 8 is used primarily by students and beginning filmmakers (and I'm all for keeping it around for as long as possible.) But if you are using film, why introduce a new stock that people can start with and eliminate another that the same filmmaker will most likely move onto? Kodak usually makes sensible decisions, but I question their logic on this one.

In answer to one of your questions, Todd, I checked both the Ilford and FujiFilm websites as soon as I heard about this and, as far as I can see, neither one produces a B&W stock anymore.

Finally, yes I do have a corporate e-mail address. Not to toot my own horn, but I write very well and would be happy to spearhead a professional petition against the elimination of this stock. I will start a thread for it.

Edited by Bill DiPietra, 07 April 2010 - 02:30 PM.

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#16 Tom Houston

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Posted 07 April 2010 - 03:26 PM

Does anyone know how long supplies will last of the 16mm stock?
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#17 andy oliver

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Posted 07 April 2010 - 03:32 PM

Have they actually announced it yet, or is this just inferred from their Super 8 page, where they announced E100D today and left out any mention of Plus-X and 64T?

Wonder if Double-X neg will survive? That's a 70-year-old film.



Hi, i have a letter from kodak announcing the discontinuance of 64t ( 7280 ) and Plus-X ( 7265 )..

Andy
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#18 Robert Houllahan

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Posted 07 April 2010 - 03:34 PM

Does anyone know how long supplies will last of the 16mm stock?



If they really do stop then the stock will probably be available until all of the master rolls have been slit, perfed and canned, the master rolls are big andthey probably have a bunch, but it is hard to say.


-Rob-
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#19 Todd Anderson

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Posted 07 April 2010 - 03:39 PM

Bill,

That sounds great about spearheading the professional petition. And I live about 25 miles outside of Hollywood. I think a phase two after the petition would be to have about a few hundred (or more if possible) people outside the Kodak Hollywood facility protesting. Of course, some form of media coverage would be very helpful. Yes. This may seem laughable at first thought (the cinematographers are a small niche of people) but I don't think it is unreasonable. If SAAB enthusiasts can save their brand, you would think film enthusiast would be able to save Plus-X... and I don't know why every ASC member wouldn't be up in arms about this a little bit....

...and you might as well send off a letter to Spielberg's and Tarantino's manager's... maybe they'll put something in the media.... Kodak is basically killing off the link to their legacy of the golden age of hollywood with this announcement... you would think that town would care...

And I completely agree, the Kodak B&W film stocks offer a texture in black and white that is a far cry from anything that is digital. That is one of films most valuable assests.

I always thought that when motion film starts to get even scarcer, that black and white might be the saving grace because it may be easier to process and develop on a smaller level. With Kodak making this move... well, it is pretty depressing quite frankly.

Todd


Tom: Regarding your question about how long supplies will last, it may be hard to say. I would think if they have officially made the announcement it has, or is close to, already starting to be phased out at least on the production end. I think the best thing to do is to make your voice heard.
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#20 Tom Houston

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Posted 07 April 2010 - 04:52 PM

Todd,

Yes, I agree and I've sent my info to Bill for his letter. I also made a large Plus-X purchase today and will continue to do so until they're sold out. This is really BS. Does Kodak want us all to stop shooting film? The way they jerk around their emulsion lineup regularly make me think they do.
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