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EX3 raw footage, please :-)


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#1 Themis Gyparis

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Posted 28 April 2010 - 12:17 PM

Hello everyone. This is my first topic and it's nice to be here. Me and a few colleagues are about to film a documentary and we're examining our camcorder options. Among others, we're considering the Sony PMW-EX3 but we haven't been able to get access to one for testing or find any raw footage on the web. If anyone could post a few seconds of raw footage of this camcorder or knows of a link to find it, I'd be truly grateful.

Thanks a lot in advance

Happy Trimmer Production Studio
Athens, GR
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#2 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 28 April 2010 - 12:49 PM

"RAW" as in single-sensor Bayer photography pre-conversion to RGB? The EX3 has three sensors so it doesn't create color that way. It records a color-subsampled video signal in Rec 709 with a variety of gamma options, the flattest or near-flattest "Cine Gamma" often being selected for material to be graded in post. That would come closest to a low-contrast Cineon Log look which some people associate with "RAW", though it's apples and oranges.
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#3 will griffith

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Posted 28 April 2010 - 12:50 PM

raw is tricky since it's MP4.

here is some with QT wrapper.

EX3 Footage


-will griffith
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#4 will griffith

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Posted 28 April 2010 - 01:00 PM

The EX3 has three sensors so it doesn't create color that way.


I think he just wants to see footage with no other compression besides what the EX3 does in camera.
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#5 Themis Gyparis

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Posted 28 April 2010 - 02:31 PM

I think he just wants to see footage with no other compression besides what the EX3 does in camera.


Exactly, Will, you got me... :) Wow! Thanks a lot for the immediate reply and help. I'm guessing this is footage straight out of the camcorder, right? did you use the supplied lens?
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#6 Themis Gyparis

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Posted 28 April 2010 - 02:58 PM

Ok, i downloaded the zip file and exported the mov file on my hard disk but I can't seem to be able to play it with Quicktime Pro 7.6.6 (1171) or import it to either Grass Valley Edius 5.50 or Premiere Pro CS4 v. 4.2 (the one with RED codec included). Is it a quicktime issue? How can I fix this? Oh, and by the way does the EX3 only record in mov files or native mp4, too? Again, thanks a lot in advance...
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#7 Themis Gyparis

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Posted 28 April 2010 - 03:09 PM

Sorry for the repeated posts, time passed and edit is not an option :-) What's weird is that the XDCAM EX Clip Browser only has an mp4 import option, so I can't help but think that the camcorder also records native mp4 files, correct? If so, any straight-out-of-the-card samples, please?

Again, thanks a lot in advance

Edited by Themis Gyparis, 28 April 2010 - 03:09 PM.

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#8 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 28 April 2010 - 06:03 PM

You won't be able to just open or play any of the footage without first installing the codecs from Sony. You'll need the Quicktime Codecs as well as the ones for Premier to work with them (dunno 'bout edius). I'm not near my home network right now, but I could probably get you something off of the camera.... a few seconds of just my wall or something, well from the EX1, which records the same as the EX3; just through a fixed lens.
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#9 Themis Gyparis

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 09:19 AM

I'm not near my home network right now, but I could probably get you something off of the camera.... a few seconds of just my wall or something, well from the EX1, which records the same as the EX3; just through a fixed lens.


I'd strongly appreciate it, Adrian, just don't forget to mention what type of lens you use. :-) The mov file issue is not that important, since as I understand the camera records on mp4 files and that's what I want. Both my editing platforms are PC based and they have native support for mp4 footage, so I guess I won't be needing any quicktime files. I have to tell you though I installed almost all available quicktime codecs and still had no playback - let aside the Xvid codec is Mac only...:-)
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#10 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 09:29 AM

It'll be on the stock EX1 lens, which is a Fujinon brand F1.9; EX1 Doesn't have a replaceable lens. I'll shoot something quick tonight (10pm EST ish) and throw it up in a .zip file for you and post a link on here. It'll be straight from the card-- e.g. with all the folders you'd get as if you copied right from the card. The native .mp4, I don't think, will play without all the appropriate data with it, meaning it'll need to be rewrapped as something.
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#11 Themis Gyparis

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 05:06 AM

The native .mp4, I don't think, will play without all the appropriate data with it, meaning it'll need to be rewrapped as something.


I use Edius 5.50 and it imports natively all mp4 files, don't worry about that. Again, thanks a lot, Adrian, your help is greatly appreciated.

Edited by Themis Gyparis, 30 April 2010 - 05:06 AM.

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#12 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 01:07 PM

Anytime. it's uploading (slowly) not. Around 265mb in a .zip file. The link will be :

http://www.adriansie...com/CardB_1.zip I'll leave it up for about a week or so. Nothing magical to look @. One EXT shot from a quick music video thing (supposed to look campy) and 1 int of my bedroom. Both natural light, forget the exact WB atm, but was set around 5600K
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#13 Themis Gyparis

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 02:54 AM

Anytime. it's uploading (slowly) not. Around 265mb in a .zip file. The link will be :

http://www.adriansie...com/CardB_1.zip I'll leave it up for about a week or so. Nothing magical to look @. One EXT shot from a quick music video thing (supposed to look campy) and 1 int of my bedroom. Both natural light, forget the exact WB atm, but was set around 5600K


Again, I can't thank you enough, Adrian. I found what I was looking for from a person so many miles away that I didn't even know, when at the same time the official local reseller didn't have any demo camcorder available or any idea when he could find one... If I could ever be of any help to you, it would be my pleasure. Don't worry about the WB, I'm only looking for camera resolution. You know I was also testing the new JVC GY-HM700 but I was rather disappointed by the result in both lower light and the outside on a cloudy day. Check the links below to get a picture (forgive my shooting, it was just a few-second shoulder shot :-)

link 1
link 2
link 3
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#14 Themis Gyparis

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 03:47 AM

I saw the shots, Adrian. Certainly much less till no noise on both. I think the resolution is much better than the GY-HM700...
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#15 Themis Gyparis

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 05:14 AM

...on the other hand I see this and I wonder what did I do wrong...
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#16 Tim Carroll

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 09:38 AM

...on the other hand I see this and I wonder what did I do wrong...


Well, have you been doing this all your life? Are you one of the leading experts in High Def capture on lower end cameras, like the JVC and many of the HDSLR cameras?

Philip is.

He's one of the leading experts on using these newer "lower end" cameras and getting beautiful results from them. So take as many years as he has, study hard, shoot alot, and keep learning, and have that little extra thing called TALENT, and you too can shoot like that.

Remember, it's never the camera, it's always the shooter.

Best,
-Tim
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#17 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 09:48 AM

Resolution is very nice on the EX cameras as is low-light capabilities and noise. A lot of that comes from their larger chips, which are really 1920x1080 as opposed to some other systems which are 1440x1080 or 720 chips which uprezz etc. The 1/2" imagers allow for bigger photosites, which gather more light, and give more sensitivity, and I find less noise.
A bit of an anecdote on the EX-- I rarely ever up the gain when shooting, normally I like to keep it a -3db to get rid of noise etc. Anyway, did this entire short at +3 to +6. Finally came time to screen this, and it was just a student film, mind you, so it went out to ProRes and got projected on a pretty good seized screen through a computer (screen was about 20x something) and comes out, noise is there, but pretty subtle and the camera handled the low light (night scenes with actors wearing all black!) pretty well. If I can find some footage from it I could let you see it-- nothing to write home about, of course, but a nice little short and gave me the opportunity to shoot in a historic cemetery-- where good old Adrian Balboa was buried.

Quite glad I could be of some help. If you'd need to look @ more (e.g. better) footage let me know, I should have some 'round.
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#18 Themis Gyparis

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 03:21 PM

Well, have you been doing this all your life? Are you one of the leading experts in High Def capture on lower end cameras, like the JVC and many of the HDSLR cameras?

Philip is.

He's one of the leading experts on using these newer "lower end" cameras and getting beautiful results from them. So take as many years as he has, study hard, shoot alot, and keep learning, and have that little extra thing called TALENT, and you too can shoot like that.

Remember, it's never the camera, it's always the shooter.

Best,
-Tim


I think you took this too far, Tim. I have no doubt Mr Bloom is very good at what he does. In fact I think his good will to offer assistance to anyone who asks him from within his site should be greatly appreciated. But I don't put the "God" label on anyone. Each one of us is as good as his last job. You don't know how many years I've been in this business or how much I've studied and certainly whether I'm talented or not, so please don't tell me what to do. I'm pretty sure Mr Bloom is excellent both as a person and a professional. But it's not steadicam work we're talking about here. If it was I'd be the first to admit that "it's never the camera, it's always the shooter". Each camcorder has certain capabilities and limitations and for heaven's sake we're talking about a lower end camcorder, not an Arri, not a RED, not a Genesis... With a few tweaks on its rather small menu, a better lens and a bit of grading, each one can get better results from it, but that's not what the camcorder itself has to offer. That's what I was referring to when I was wondering what I do wrong. And of course, whether the JVC is better or worse than the EX3 or a one of equal class is a matter of basic knowledge and perception... Nothing more, nothing less.
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#19 Themis Gyparis

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 03:46 PM

Quite glad I could be of some help. If you'd need to look @ more (e.g. better) footage let me know, I should have some 'round.


Any available raw footage is greatly appreciated, Adrian, if I don't get you in too much trouble, of course :-) You've helped a lot so far and honestly I can't thank you enough. I know the sensor is a strong point and that's why I'm trying to compare. Should you think it's no trouble for you, feel free to upload :-)

All the best
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#20 Tim Carroll

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 03:55 PM

I think you took this too far, Tim. I have no doubt Mr Bloom is very good at what he does. In fact I think his good will to offer assistance to anyone who asks him from within his site should be greatly appreciated. But I don't put the "God" label on anyone. Each one of us is as good as his last job. You don't know how many years I've been in this business or how much I've studied and certainly whether I'm talented or not, so please don't tell me what to do. I'm pretty sure Mr Bloom is excellent both as a person and a professional. But it's not steadicam work we're talking about here. If it was I'd be the first to admit that "it's never the camera, it's always the shooter". Each camcorder has certain capabilities and limitations and for heaven's sake we're talking about a lower end camcorder, not an Arri, not a RED, not a Genesis... With a few tweaks on its rather small menu, a better lens and a bit of grading, each one can get better results from it, but that's not what the camcorder itself has to offer. That's what I was referring to when I was wondering what I do wrong. And of course, whether the JVC is better or worse than the EX3 or a one of equal class is a matter of basic knowledge and perception... Nothing more, nothing less.


And what I am saying is that those images you linked to are a result, not of the "camera", but of the operator who knows how to get the most out of the "camera", and the lighting, and the grading in post (though I think he mentions that it wasn't graded), and everything else that goes into making a beautiful moving image with that "camera".

If you can't get that image quality from the same "camera", then I think you would have to admit that Philip has more experience, more knowledge, or more talent than you have. I didn't refer to Philip or anyone else as a "God". He is a DP that knows how to get the most out of those cameras, plain and simple. If you can't get the same quality image, I mean, after all you're the one who wrote "what did I do wrong...", then you need more experience, more knowledge, or more talent. Nothing to get worked up about, unless you're expecting the "camera" to do the work for you.

Best,
-Tim
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