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Ektachrome 100D Sample


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#1 Art Leal

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 10:38 PM

Here's a link to a roll I shot last week of Kodak's Ektachrome 100D. The Beaulieu I used gave me jitter, focusing was off with it as well, and it's not the greatest telecine. I had better results using the Canon 310XL indoors with it and at full auto exposure. Still I thought it might be worth a look.

Thanks


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#2 Alessandro Malfatti

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 08:21 AM

Here's a link to a roll I shot last week of Kodak's Ektachrome 100D. The Beaulieu I used gave me jitter, focusing was off with it as well, and it's not the greatest telecine. I had better results using the Canon 310XL indoors with it and at full auto exposure. Still I thought it might be worth a look.

Thanks


In spite of the flaws you mentioned it's a decent example of the 100D colors, which seem nicely saturated, and my guess is that a bit of this was lost with telecine, still, thanks for this.
Did you run into any problems with the cartridge at all, as with 64t that stuck a bit for the first foot or two at times?

Also I love your little "reference" to Pro8 there...
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#3 Art Leal

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 07:59 PM

In spite of the flaws you mentioned it's a decent example of the 100D colors, which seem nicely saturated, and my guess is that a bit of this was lost with telecine, still, thanks for this.
Did you run into any problems with the cartridge at all, as with 64t that stuck a bit for the first foot or two at times?

Also I love your little "reference" to Pro8 there...


Thanks Alessandro!

No problems whatsoever with the cart I shot last week or this afternoon as far as stuttering, jamming, etc. Audibly it sounded very smooth.

BTW, the "reference" shot was my favorite part of this entire roll.

Best,
Art
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#4 Jim Carlile

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 12:13 AM

Looks good. How is Kodak notching that film? Is it in a notchless cartridge? It should be just like Plus-X.

But their tip sheet here is full of inaccuracies:

http://motion.kodak....iles/CIS287.pdf

It suggests that it will be notched as 100T, where you have to remove the filter yourself. That would be disastrous, and most cameras will not read this speed indice, either. Removing the filter will also lower the ASA by 2/3 stop.

Better that it be notched at 160T/100D, with a notchless cartridge to knock it down to the lower ASA.
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#5 Art Leal

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 07:26 AM

Looks good. How is Kodak notching that film? Is it in a notchless cartridge? It should be just like Plus-X.

But their tip sheet here is full of inaccuracies:

http://motion.kodak....iles/CIS287.pdf

It suggests that it will be notched as 100T, where you have to remove the filter yourself. That would be disastrous, and most cameras will not read this speed indice, either. Removing the filter will also lower the ASA by 2/3 stop.

Better that it be notched at 160T/100D, with a notchless cartridge to knock it down to the lower ASA.


Hi Jim!

It looks exactly like the Plus-X, and is a notchless cart as well. I wondered about the same where the data sheet insists on manually removing the daylight filter even though the cartridge will push it out of the way. Perhaps they're taking into account cameras that may not have a filter pin?
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#6 Andries Molenaar

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 08:23 AM

What is notchless? No ISO notch at all?
That would cause many cameras to expose incorrectly as a really low ISO :(.
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#7 Art Leal

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 08:48 AM

Hi Andries:

By notchless I mean no daylight filter notch located on the bottom of the edge of the cartridge...

See towards the middle of the page:
http://home.pacbell..../super8_37.html
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#8 Andries Molenaar

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 09:57 AM

Hi Andries:

By notchless I mean no daylight filter notch located on the bottom of the edge of the cartridge...

See towards the middle of the page:
http://home.pacbell..../super8_37.html



Thanks Art,

Super8man to the rescue :)
It is wonder how that website holds up in time. Too bad it lost it domainname.

So the filter is forced out by the cartridge. The speednotch is set to 100? Just one step slower then 7240
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#9 Jim Carlile

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 05:52 PM

Hi Art,

That makes sense-- but it also means their new data sheet is totally wrong, and another source of confusion!

The SMPTE protocol for daylight 100 ASA super 8 is to speed-notch it at the 160T/100D indice, and then use a notchless cartridge to key it down to the 100 without any possibility of using the internal 85 filter. The cartridge pushes in the filter pin, which both disables the filter permanently and also sets the meter to the lower ASA rating for that particular speed-notch size.

I'm really glad Kodak is doing it this way-- Wittner supposedly speed-notches it at 100T/64D, which makes it easy to spoil a roll by accidentally leaving in the filter. On some cameras, too, toggling the filter switch to daylight will also set the meter to the lower ASA, which would be 64.

Kodak doesn't supply empty cartridges in notchless form, so maybe the other companies have no choice but to do it this way. But it sure creates a hassle. Also, many more cameras will do the 160T/100D thing than will read the unusual 100T speed indice-- which was used only once in the past, I believe, by Ansco, and only for a year or so back in the late 60s.

By the way, Kodak was originally planning their first S8 high-speed film to be 100ASA, but they later changed their mind and made it 160-- which is the reason why their entry M4 camera will read both 40 and 100.

So in the end, any SMPTE compliant camera that will read the new Plus-X correctly will also be able to read E100D without any problem. That's good to know-- thanks for being in the vanguard here!
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#10 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 10:30 PM

Thanks Art,

Super8man to the rescue :)
It is wonder how that website holds up in time. Too bad it lost it domainname.


Can you explain what exactly happened?

Did they lose their domain name but transfer their information somewhere else?
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#11 Steven Boldt

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 03:56 PM

Hi Art,

That makes sense-- but it also means their new data sheet is totally wrong, and another source of confusion!

The SMPTE protocol for daylight 100 ASA super 8 is to speed-notch it at the 160T/100D indice, and then use a notchless cartridge to key it down to the 100 without any possibility of using the internal 85 filter. The cartridge pushes in the filter pin, which both disables the filter permanently and also sets the meter to the lower ASA rating for that particular speed-notch size.

I'm really glad Kodak is doing it this way-- Wittner supposedly speed-notches it at 100T/64D, which makes it easy to spoil a roll by accidentally leaving in the filter. On some cameras, too, toggling the filter switch to daylight will also set the meter to the lower ASA, which would be 64.

Kodak doesn't supply empty cartridges in notchless form, so maybe the other companies have no choice but to do it this way. But it sure creates a hassle. Also, many more cameras will do the 160T/100D thing than will read the unusual 100T speed indice-- which was used only once in the past, I believe, by Ansco, and only for a year or so back in the late 60s.

By the way, Kodak was originally planning their first S8 high-speed film to be 100ASA, but they later changed their mind and made it 160-- which is the reason why their entry M4 camera will read both 40 and 100.

So in the end, any SMPTE compliant camera that will read the new Plus-X correctly will also be able to read E100D without any problem. That's good to know-- thanks for being in the vanguard here!



Jim, the M4 will read 40 and 100?
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#12 Nicholas Rapak

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 09:44 PM

Jim, the M4 will read 40 and 100?



The M4 will read 40T/25D and 100T/64D. The Kodak 100D as notched will be metered at 64 without an 85 filter. If you put the tungsten key in the top, it will move a small piece of metal from the meter, metering it at 100.

Edited by Nicholas Rapak, 05 May 2010 - 09:45 PM.

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#13 Steven Boldt

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 11:43 PM

I shot a roll of Tri-X and one of Plus-X with different ND Filters on the front lenses of an M2 and an M4. I wrote down the settings for every shot. I thought it would be easier to do some trial and error than to try and make sense of the notching system and constant changes in Kodak films. I'll see the results in a few days.

Didn't mean to high-jack this thread but it seemed related.

Edited by Steven Boldt, 05 May 2010 - 11:45 PM.

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#14 Steven Boldt

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 11:50 PM

I forgot to say, this footage looks very good. Nice colors and detail.
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#15 Jim Carlile

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Posted 07 May 2010 - 03:44 AM

Will the M4 read 100D? It very well may-- it's hard to tell on that camera because there are no f/stops to spot a change.

Normally what happens is that the notchless cartridge of the new 100D will cancel out the filter and set the meter to ASA 64 no matter what. But you might be able to override that with the key-- normally the key pulls out the filter, which the notchless cartridge has already done.

Maybe it also resets the meter to 100. But just to be sure, I'd cut a filter notch in the cartridge so it does not set the meter to the SMPTE speed-indice rating of 64, and then pull the filter out with the key. Otherwise you'll probably get the SMPTE protocol of 100T/64D.

I know for Plus-X, all you have to do is cut a filter notch, and the camera will read it as 100T with the 85 filter in place, which makes no difference to B/W film.
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#16 Jim Carlile

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Posted 07 May 2010 - 03:58 AM

I shot a roll of Tri-X and one of Plus-X with different ND Filters on the front lenses of an M2 and an M4. I wrote down the settings for every shot. I thought it would be easier to do some trial and error than to try and make sense of the notching system and constant changes in Kodak films. I'll see the results in a few days.

Didn't mean to high-jack this thread but it seemed related.


What do you do with the Plus-X cartridge in the M4? Just use it straight, or cut a filter notch in it?

In theory, no notch means it will read at ASA 64, which would overexpose it by 2/3 stop. That's Ok. Tri-X should be way overexposed too. So yeah, if you put ND filters in front of the lens only it might turn out well with either one.

The M2 has no meter so it can run anything, ND or not. It's manual setting all the way.

Both cameras are fantastic and you really can't go wrong with them. They're seriously underrated.
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#17 Miguel Loredo

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Posted 07 May 2010 - 04:20 AM

Hi Art,
Wittner supposedly speed-notches it at 100T/64D, which makes it easy to spoil a roll by accidentally leaving in the filter.


In my own experience Wittnerchrome 100D is correctly notched, as 100D
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#18 Nicholas Rapak

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Posted 07 May 2010 - 09:33 PM

All exposure adjustments on the M4 are done in front of the CdS cell in the lower right-hand corner. There are two things that adjust the amount of light entering the cell: A small ND filter graduated from : 1 1/3 stop to 2 stop, and a metal shade that reduces the light an additional 2/3 stop to compensate for the 85 filter. When 100D is put into the M4, the ND filter is removed but the metal shade is not, metering for 64 with no filter. Inserting the key removes the shade without adding a filter, metering for 100.
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#19 Jim Carlile

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Posted 08 May 2010 - 02:40 AM

Interesting-- that's an unusual feature. What it means is that you can keep the key in for regular shooting at ASA 100D, and then take it out for backlight compensation, because it will reset the meter to ASA 64 because of the notchless cartridge with the filter still out, but open up about 2/3 stop more for your backlit subject. Cool.

Most later cameras will do nothing when you toggle the filter switch back and forth with a notchless cartridge-- which is probably good, because otherwise if it reset to the higher tungsten ASA at the 'daylight' position then the exposure would be off. It would be a common error with daylight film.
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